SomeLinenAndShirts [comrade/them]

Yeah, okay comrade, let’s talk about it.

Firstly, since we’re talking about the SA boycott movement, I’m sure you know that it built international support which could be funneled to the South Africans. I’m sure the temptation is great to make the obvious parallels to the United States, what with it being a settler colonial nation, however, the goal of the movement needs to be kept in mind here. This was not a movement to end capitalism, and, just as you might be tempted to draw parallels with the United States in their historical position, I might draw a parallel between the more Mensheviks leaning Workers Soviets and the avant-garde of the Kadets during the provincial government period following Tsar Nicolas’s abdication, and say that the ANC-SACP coalition shows that: Here was a development for the working class in so far as it was able to secure freedom for the native South Africans, but in liberal sense of the word freedom. And of course, we can all agree that this development is a good thing, but incomplete.

Not to mention the other fact: 1960’s did not see the rise of Neoliberalism. A movement that has completely eroded whatever aid existed following the anti-communist movements in the United States. To equate the two’s historic and material conditions neglects the previous 40 years of austerity and destruction of any class based solidarity. In other words, to bring up the SA BDS movement, its to try to make an equivalence which itself is not grounded in the material or historical realities. The self-reflection is absolutely lacking from you here comrade.

Now, what goal would a BDS re:Texas hope to accomplish?

There are no calls for material gains for the working class, sure there is racism, sexism, and settler-colonialism there, but that is not much more pronounced there compared to other, say, Southern States, or even really any states. The calls here are on the basis of ideological difference between liberals and populist reactionaries.

Perhaps you think that BDS re:Texas will provide a way to build anti-capitalism in the state of Texas. Surely, with along side a BDS movement there is an army of fellow comrades with sufficiently developed mutual aid networks capable of securing material needs to be secretly transported into Texas to help the comrades there build grow their membership and education programs? No? There isn’t? The support would be seized immediately?

Then what? You hope to see the comrades there build relationships with the bourgeois? Is that what is needed in the present moment in North America’s historical development? At the behest of not being “sectarian” I won’t go into my opinions on why this strategy is a losing one, but that is not the point. The point is, at present, the development of the reactionary efforts has taken on a more populist flavor than ever in the United States, which is entirely unlike the reactionary forces in SA. These reactionaries are actively recruiting disaffected members to do terrorism and target minorities and comrades in this state (see El Paso) and as their populism grows, so too will their aid networks, so too will their businesses which will remain free to move into Texas and aid their fellow reactionaries there, while targeting comrades.

The socialist program in America is not sufficiently developed, especially not in the South, and I won’t hear liberals advocate for the turning into martyrs of our comrades, to have to answer to these agitated-reactionaries, as their lives degrade through a BDS, while not being able to provide them the means of doing so, during a period of time where the preservation of, and development of a socialist program there is of paramount importance. You are advocating for the smothering in the cradle of the growth of socialism in Texas. Hence, why I term you, liberal.

2 C is the amount of warming that scientists and economists have somewhat agreed is the “reasonable” amount of heating that will occur if we start changing things right now. Above that and we start getting really bad climate feedback loops that could theoretically push temperatures to +5 C

Predictive modeling is just predictive modeling, and science is just science. The expectation of people (of which I’m not going to presume where you fit on this) is that these academic pursuits are supposed to be infallible or that they are the hard authority on ANY matter is farcical. The truth is, they are working with the data as the receive it, and with knowledge that has been ascertained, and its a giant machine (academic work that is) that every now in then has some break through or idea that gets mainstream and popular amongst people and politicians.

So idk if I’m just riffing with you or not, but yeah it’s always been “who the fuck knows”, even the papers that you’ve seen cited in news articles like the one in this thread, they all work off the preconditioned assumption that they could be wrong, and everyone should know that. But 2C of warming is essentially, according to what we know right now, the point where it gets really fucked.

And yeah, I know academics are stuffy and arrogant a lot of the time, think they’re really right and are willing to fight like hell to look at data and outright lie or obfuscate the truth. But at least on this, whether they’re lying and it could be sooner, or later, it hardly fucking matters, because if we don’t do anything at all, it’s pretty much guaranteed, unless you (I’m using the general case of you) are a climate denier.

damn i guess there arent 2 other fucking words there like “divest” and “sanction”. convenient for a liberal to just shoehorn the discussion away from whats being implied to obfuscate the meaning of some other liberals point.

edit to rail against this liberal harder: “wow wouldn’t it be fucking PRAXIS if we used bourgeois state violence against an entire group of people based off some fucking imaginary lines???”

Now, what goal would a BDS re:Texas hope to accomplish?

There are no calls for material gains for the working class, sure there is racism, sexism, and settler-colonialism there, but that is not much more pronounced there compared to other, say, Southern States, or even really any states. The calls here are on the basis of ideological difference between liberals and populist reactionaries.

Perhaps you think that BDS re:Texas will provide a way to build anti-capitalism in the state of Texas. Surely, with along side a BDS movement there is an army of fellow comrades with sufficiently developed mutual aid networks capable of securing material needs to be secretly transported into Texas to help the comrades there build grow their membership and education programs? No? There isn’t? The support would be seized immediately?

Then what? You hope to see the comrades there build relationships with the bourgeois? Is that what is needed in the present moment in North America’s historical development? At the behest of not being “sectarian” I won’t go into my opinions on why this strategy is a losing one, but that is not the point. The point is, at present, the development of the reactionary efforts has taken on a more populist flavor than ever in the United States. These reactionaries are actively recruiting disaffected members to do terrorism and target minorities and comrades in this state (see El Paso) and as their populism grows, so too will their aid networks, so too will their businesses which will remain free to move into Texas and aid their fellow reactionaries there, while targeting comrades.

The socialist program in America is not sufficiently developed, especially not in the South, and I won’t hear liberals advocate for the turning into martyrs of our comrades, to have to answer to these agitated-reactionaries, as their lives degrade through a BDS, while not being able to provide them the means of doing so, during a period of time where the preservation of, and development of a socialist program there is of paramount importance.

zoomer checking in to ask “wtf is 9/11?” is it some kind of inside joke? :lenin-laugh:

I’m probably just blowing hot air here, but, I’ve been thinking a lot about something:

For the situation in the US currently (and perhaps the entire world, considering how tied up the US is in every other economies affairs), if we don’t start working our absolute hardest right now to establish supplies, do mutual aid, and start building a connection to the working class, then, when the capitalist system goes through its next, probably catastrophic, bust cycle, we will see the greatest opportunity to build dual power fly directly past us, and into the laps of the fascists.

This political situation is already resting on the tip of a knife, and if we cannot make the necessary connection to the working class, during a time when they are dispossessed, then I’m scared that will be the nail in the coffin for the communist movement in the West. The thing is, it will require all of us to work as diligently as we possibly can and give as much as we each can towards helping the exact people that we gripe about daily on here, and connect with them and then re-direct their agitation and re-educate them out of reaction. I won’t say “you’re a liberal” if you can’t help a chud out to help build this, since I know it’s not the safest for every one of our comrades, but, if you are able to operate in relative safety around chuds, then, this work has to be done. Otherwise we lose. And of course aid, agitation, and education applies to every working class person regardless of political affiliation, outside of like, outright reactionary fascists who are beyond the brink of saving who probably have the material capability to survive a bust cycle anyways.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently and, honestly, if we want to actually develop some kind of dual power, the work needs to be done now to start establishing supplies and connections to working class people. If we aren’t all working as much as we possibly can to do this, in this moment, then, when this whole thing bottoms out, the opportunity to win over the working class and build dual power will fly right by us, and fascism and reaction will only grow further. And the situation is already balanced at the tip of a knife anyways.