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Gonna take a slightly different take and say that some kind of Jewish state really should exist. Jews have been persecuted wherever they lived for literally thousands of years, and responded to it by just leaving and going somewhere else. A pretty common take you’ll hear from Holocaust survivors is that they couldn’t do that anymore, no one wanted to take Jewish refugees from Germany so they just fucking died.
Trying to let Jewish people live in countries that are not majority Jewish has universally ended badly for them. It’s not unreasonable to give them somewhere to live. It is unreasonable to let Zionists say Israel is the only acceptable location for this to happen and fuck whoever is already there. The issue is that it’s already happened, and making all the Jewish people leave Israel, again, is also a pretty impossible idea. The two state solution is still the best feasible option IMO, rolling back all the expansion Israel has done and stopping them from doing any more would be at least semi acceptable if Palestine also gets some amount of guaranteed territory. I know it sounds shitty, but a one state solution eliminates the point of Israel in the first place and evicting all the Palestinians or all the Israelis is impossible.
This is just zionism. Don’t be afraid to say it.
Trying to let Jewish people live in countries that are not majority Jewish has universally ended badly for them.
What?? Are you stuck in mid 20th century? Do you honestly think this is the case in 2021 in N. America and W. Europe? Oh did you mean to replace the word “Jewish” with “Muslim”? Because then it would be on the money.
It’s not unreasonable to give them somewhere to live
Yes it is. This whole conflict is rooted in the fact you can’t give away other people’s lands to another entire ethnic group. There are no chosen lands. There are no chosen peoples.
a one state solution eliminates the point of Israel in the first place
You know you’re giving it away when you say this right? The “point” of Israel is to have a fascist ethno-state, yes.
What?? Are you stuck in mid 20th century? Do you honestly think this is the case in 2021 in N. America and W. Europe? Oh did you mean to replace the word “Jewish” with “Muslim”? Because then it would be on the money.
Yes? Anti-semitism, and not just the “oh you criticized Israel? You’re anti-Semitic” but like actual antisemitism is very real. Saying it lasted for millennia and had the majority of their European population LITERALLY GENOCIDED eighty years ago but then suddenly ended in current year is an insane idea. Westerners hating Muslims does not eliminate this.
Yes it is. This whole conflict is rooted in the fact you can’t give away other people’s lands to another entire ethnic group. **There are no chosen lands. There are no chosen peoples. **
I said “somewhere” and not “Israel specifically” for a reason. Requiring it to be in Israel is Zionist, sure.
You know you’re giving it away when you say this right? The “point” of Israel is to have a fascist ethno-state, yes.
Fuck off, I’m not a fascist or a zionist or even Christian. The “point” is that the entirety of Jewish history shows that they will be oppressed up to and including genocide when they are the minority. Like, every single fucking place they’ve ever lived. If you have a magic solution to fix that, I’d love to hear it.
Shouldn’t we also have a Roma state then?
Their circumstances are similar(to me an outsider), a lot of jews after the second world war were against the concept of a jewish state.
I mean the spirit is out of the bottle now, you can’t put it back in regards to israel, but i don’t think that a jewish state needs to exist an many jews( at least in the 50s) do not think so either. We should fight the reasons that you think that a jewish state is needed, not create a jewish state.
Shouldn’t we also have a Roma state then?
Yes. How would you like southern Germany?
I mean yeah, if it wasn’t for the people living there, but you would have to do a genocide to settle people there. i am against settler-colonial countries, all of them. Like i said, make it so that there is no reason for ethonstates, not create them
This is a stupid proposal, we’ve seen how ethnostates go, for example in Palestine. And like i said, i don’t know if roma people want their own state, i can’t speak for them.
(Bavaria is still shit tough)
Aren’t Romani people traditionally itinerant/nomadic, though? I don’t think that a nation state with borders necessarily makes sense for that. As far as I’m aware there’s no known record of the origin (though genetic findings suggest an Indian origin) and whether it was due to forced expulsion from their homeland, whereas we know of several instances of Jews being forcefully driven out of places.
Yeah, but modern jews also don’t hava a single origin anymore either. Post WWII many still saw their homelands in europe, like i said for many jews a nationstate also did not make sense.
I can understand the traumatic circumstances that led to zionism seeming like the only option for Jewish survival, but implicit in that conclusion is that antisemitism cannot ever truly be defeated.
I think mass forced expulsion of European settlers from Palestine is obviously not a good solution, just as mass forced expulsion of European settlers from Turtle Island isn’t a good solution. Ultimately though there are no peaceful solutions as long as you perpetuate the existence of a garrison state that believes its surrounded by enemies on all sides and will defend its racial purity with bombs and guns. Even if they cede some of the land they stole, even if they were somehow defeated militarily (by whatever or whomever), and were forced to give up their military like Japan after WWII, you’ve only planted the seed of genocidal racial resentment for it to flower anew.