Hexbear

3 points

4 years ago

What about when those “community institutions” are usually insular and reactionary?

Any institution can host reactionary leadership. Any institution can become insular over time.

What is the solution? Alienate ourselves for fear of coming in contact with these social elements does nothing to further our goals.

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star_wraith [he/him]@hexbear.net

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5 points

4 years ago

reactionary leadership

Except this is where the mass of members - not just the leadership - is highly reactionary. Arguably even more reactionary (source: was an evangelical for 30 years).

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[ - ]

3 points

4 years ago

People aren’t born reactionary. They’re a product of their communities.

By all means, bring on the gulags and the reeducation camps. But leave the liberation theologists and the spiritual leftists out of it.

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chadhominem [comrade/them]@hexbear.net

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6 points

4 years ago

Kind of exactly the point. Organized religion as an institution in the US is largely reactionary. Therefore these churches are a network of reactionary “community institutions” literally acting as a catalyst to turn their community members (who weren’t born reactionaries) more reactionary… Therefore, church membership being down is only good?

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[ - ]

2 points

4 years ago

Therefore, church membership being down is only good?

Only if (a) American communities absent religious institutions are de-radicalizing and (b) American communities that retain religious institutions are not vulnerable to leftist rhetorical gambits.

I haven’t seen (a). The techbro libertarian is no less reactionary than the midwestern evangelist. And I’m not sold on (b), either, given how many leftists have come out of black churches and immigrant synogogues.

Hell, the abolitionist movement was a religious-powered movement. As was the populist movement of the late 19th century.

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star_wraith [he/him]@hexbear.net

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3 points

4 years ago

Sure, no issue with liberation theology or spiritual leftist, of course. But the issue is that white evangelicalism represents the beliefs of like 25% of the US population, and wields and even larger, disproportionate amount of power. It’s a group that is very unified in socio-political beliefs as well as theological beliefs. And those theological beliefs often have serious repercussions for the rest of us. And not just anti-LGBTQ views. You have any idea how many white evangelicals believe that everyone but them will spend eternity in a state of eternal, conscious torment? And how that leads to thinking the lives lived by most of us on earth is meaningless? This is a group that acts in an incredibly unified manner to oppress the poor and marginalized in America. They have numbers and power. And I get that if you’re a leftist Christian it can be annoying to get lumped in with them. But at the same time we need to be able to talk about this very very large group of Americans that has fought and will continue to fight against any progress we want to make.

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[ - ]

2 points

4 years ago

But the issue is that white evangelicalism represents the beliefs of like 25% of the US population, and wields and even larger, disproportionate amount of power.

The modern Evangelical community is comically removed from the founding principles of the Christian Gospel. At a certain point, they are simply consumerist vehicles of the capitalist state. The Televangelical is a classic instance of this problem, as it denudes religion of all its positive qualities - shared public space, human interaction, a religious leadership that exists as a member of the community - and leaves only the obligation to tithe and to conform to the dogmatic views of the charismatic preacher.

The problem with this system isn’t that it’s religious. The problem is that it’s parasitic and corrupt.

This is a group that acts in an incredibly unified manner to oppress the poor and marginalized in America. They have numbers and power. And I get that if you’re a leftist Christian it can be annoying to get lumped in with them. But at the same time we need to be able to talk about this very very large group of Americans that has fought and will continue to fight against any progress we want to make.

I was raised a Catholic who kinda veered off into atheism. But as I get older, I begin to recognize how useful churches are as institutions of social organization and activism, and I regret losing touch with the Catholics as a community.

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