Permanently Deleted

You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments

The Ukraine issue is pretty straightforward. The country explicitly denied the right to self determination (secession) in its constitution because it knew regions with ethnic Russian majorities (like in Crimea and Sevastopol) would vote to join Russia, while regions like Donbas which have significant Russian populations would be at risk of seceding. Sevastopol and Crimea did vote to join Russia (as did half of the local military forces) and Donbas has been in a low grade civil war for almost a decade now.

In that civil war, the most liberal estimation of Russian soldiers involved has been 12,000 (the US deployed at least 112,000 at the peak of the Iraq War for comparison and had 5,200 stationed until last year along with 20,000 marines in embassies and thousands of PMCs). Keep in mind though, that when hawks fret about Russian “aggression” towards Ukraine, they mean Russian soldiers moving within Russian borders on the edge of an active war zone in Ukraine (since they struggle to produce any actual documentation of Russian soldiers in Donbas). Is it aggression when Russia stations soldiers within its own borders? Is it aggression when the Russian military acts as a buffer against an ongoing civil war? No of course it isn’t and it’s chauvinism to suggest that Russians do not have that right because it upsets the liberal hawks (not to even mention the crimes of their own country).

permalink
report
reply
9 points

Which countries allow the right to secession? I mean, it would be great if all nation-states gave that right to the territories they govern, but in practice how common is it?

permalink
report
parent
reply

it’s not a thing… literally only the USSR. it’s an awful justification. anti-russian laws and rhetoric would be relevant

permalink
report
parent
reply

Ukraine actually does, on the condition that the rest of Ukraine agrees to it as well. While I’m not aware of the right being explicit anywhere, the right to self determination (meaning secession) for peoples in Europe and Asia has been a liberal (and left) position for over a century, and it should be easy to demonstrate hypocrisy and opportunism when say, Taiwan should be allowed to secede but not Crimea. If op’s “bro” is so nakedly reactionary that they don’t care then op should simply use that metric to end the discussion.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply

Nice write up.

permalink
report
parent
reply

askchapo

!askchapo@hexbear.net

Create post

Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer thought-provoking questions.

Rules:

  1. Posts must ask a question.

  2. If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.

  3. Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.

  4. Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you’re having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.

Community stats

  • 125

    Monthly active users

  • 7.3K

    Posts

  • 164K

    Comments