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23 points

I mean, there’s multiple camps on this (ultimately semantic) debate, right? And which position you take has less to do with reality and more to do with your politics.

There’s the marx-against-marxists people who’d point out that Marx defined the DoTP as a phase of capitalism in the Gothakritique.

Then there’s the Leninists who define the DoTP as the lower phase of socialism.

There’s the immediatists and communizers who believe that China is capitalist because the MoP aren’t in the control of the working class “to do communism you have to do communism.”

There’s the trots who believe that China isn’t internationalist enough.

There’s the maoists who believe that China’s liberal reforms were revisionist.

There’s the anarchists who don’t care if China’s socialist because it isn’t trying to do away with the state, but often opportunistically say it’s not socialist.

But ultimately, these are more reflections of your own politics rather than what China is, which is a capitalist mixed economy managed by an ML party, to put it as neutrally as possible.

The more interesting questions are “what roles does China play in the world system?” “How can western leftists combat empire?” “When is China an ally (for example in Bolivia)” “When is China an enemy? (for example in the Philippines).” Because ultimately you can only act from the space and position of your own body, and no state is going to be any one thing.

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7 points

This should be a copypasta, it’s good.

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10 points

With all sincerity, thank you for strangling this discussion in the crib. You’ve saved us all a post thread 50 replies deep.

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9 points

I agree with you, and I guess this discussion is kind of pointless.

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