Comment by President_Obama [they/them]@hexbear.net on The meat lobby[Farmers party, BBB] is up to 2nd place in the latest dutch polls. I hate this country so fucking much.

SP is anticommunist, however. Unless you’re hedging your bets with Marxistisch Forum, I have high hopes for BIJ1 and all the new blood which hangs out around there (Radicaal, Rood)

Rood is pretty trotsky/kautsky filled at the moment, which I don’t like, but it seems for some reason to be most popular with youth at the moment? Kinda confused on that tbh. They had their all-hands meeting today, and I got that impression

Most western European coms are leftcoms nowadays it seems. Older generations remember a soviet union and the communist resistance, the new ones are idealist and wish for bloodless revolution.

Utopianism is the largest trend across the European left. The fight right now in many countries is the same fight Marx and Engels were having, an argument against widespread utopianism and in favour of scientific socialism.

Most western people are useless. In other news, water is still wet and gravity still pulls you down. :agony-4horsemen:

There’s still MLs in the Netherlands, they are in the CJB (Communist Youth Movement) though.

ROOD doesn’t believe in a bloodless revolution, by the way. It was one of the things they got attacked for in the media (in favour of things such as arming the masses).

CJB has the benefit of being part of the NCPN, meaning they’re actually organised. But they’ve got like , wat, 300 members? Pretty sure ROOD’s got 1900 or so.

ROOD doesn’t believe in a bloodless revolution, by the way.

I know Kemerink was chastised for his comments about gun ownership. All of these party’s actual leadership are communists (if often leftcoms). The Dutch left is in general, however, utopian.

the new ones are idealist and wish for bloodless revolution.

Can you really blame someone for wanting to live in peace? People’s consciousness doesn’t magically appear; nobody is born as a ML. Consciousness develops trough changing material conditions, and the active presence of a broadly organised marxist party is crucial for guiding that process.

I understand why, just find it a pity.

Understandable. I just want to combat the defeatism which I often see here: the “everyone in the West is useless”-sentiment. It’s our duty to organise, and change the material conditions, not lament them.

t seems for some reason to be most popular with youth at the moment

What gives you that impression?

I haven’t spoken to a socialist under 30 in a while who isn’t super pro-reform/kautsky anti-lenin/stalin. Also that the leaders of the most prominent socialist group (ROOD) are outspoken Kautksy/Trotsky people

Then I misread your comment. I thought you were saying that Rood was the most popular political organisation among youth in general.

Most popular socialist one, yeah. Most popular, fuckin wish

Well yeah, the Marxists in the party are in MF, though with how hostile SP has positioned itself towards MF and Rood, I don’t know how to feel about “steering the SP leftward” rather than organising outside of it. It is still the biggest currently existing left-wing platform, though.

MF has stopped existing, nearly everyone has moved to the new Socialisten working groups.

Damn 4real? What does that mean concretely? And how do CP, ROOD & radicaal fit into this?

The SP is dead, in a leftist sense. The last struggle happened from the Summer of 2020 till the end of 2021. That struggle was necessary, but ultimately the fight for power over the party was lost. All marxists/communists are in ROOD or in the Socialisten (Socialists) working groups / local parties. Only a handful of unorganized communists remain in the SP. Others that have left already before the 2020-2021 struggle, fled to the Animal Party or Bij1.

Source: I’m a member of Communist Platform, with a decade of daily experience with the SP, and now active in one of the Socialisten groups.

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The meat lobby[Farmers party, BBB] is up to 2nd place in the latest dutch polls. I hate this country so fucking much.(hexbear.net)

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