Permanently Deleted
There was a guy who said that sex workers are definitionally petite-bourgeois because they own “means of production” (their own bodies).
Now, there are some sex workers who technically do own means of production and a small few who are petite bourgeois, but there are two basic problems with their argument from a theoretical standpoint:
Humans and living human bodies are specifically not the means of production. They are the labor input that is put into the means of production in order to produce. This is something Marx’s LTV hinges on. The collective term for laborers and the means of production are the “forces of production”.
Being bourgeois in any capacity is not primarily defined by ownership, if one is being very technical. It is defined by extracting labor value from others, which is almost always accomplished via ownership. If you’re a carpenter who owns your own tools and operates a one-man business, you are not even slightly bourgeois on a local-level analysis (it’s more complicated when we factor in where those tools came from).
Of course, there is also the issue of that person’s view being ridiculously misogynistic, but anyone who would say that shit publicly is probably past the point of “that’s misogynistic” being an effective argument. I just wanted to mention the technical arguments in case someone here encounters this shit in the future.
The user was banned that day, and rightfully so.
There was a guy who said that sex workers are definitionally petite-bourgeois because they own “means of production” (their own bodies).
I feel like at this point, this person has just lost the plot entirely. Modern leftists are so good at jerking ourselves off to trying to define in superfine detail what person is in what class, etc etc
Reading Marx and Engels, it seems like these guys didn’t get too caught up in the definitions. In Capital, I really get the impression Marx considers the “working class” to broadly be workers in factories, farms, on the streets, and servants quarters. And then you have a capitalist class and maybe petite bourgeois. That’s a lot of people who are left undefined but I really don’t think Marx is trying to put every single person into a category.
If you own the means of production and are only self-employed, then you’re not petite-bourgeoise though?
Edit: finished reading your comment, love that you addressed it
The user was banned that day, and rightfully so.
Love a good happy ending.
also ignoring that a lot of sex workers are exploited by pimps often very violently
this is a very wide generalization and is a line of thinking often used as justification for police and state violence against sex workers.
Exploitation and violence from third parties are certainly an issue, however this also tends to be over-applied or used to conflate sex work and human trafficking as the same thing.
I’d also recommend not using the term “pimp” as it’s a very gendered, racialized and classed term. The term “pimp” does not recognize the range of third party roles, the services they provide nor the relationships they have with sex workers.
Now, there are some sex workers who technically do own means of production
What are the MoP in that case? A brothel?
People who own brothels usually – at least to my knowledge – play a managerial role rather than directly engage in “sex work” in any recognizable use of the term. They are basically just a type of manager, salesperson, and, in grim cases, disciplinarian.
What I was thinking of was independent porn stars who hire camera guys, other crew, and maybe editors. You get a lot of these at the top levels of OnlyFans. The MoP there, or so one might stipulate since there is going to be some variance, is likely to include sets, props, stage/filming equipment, and probably also the digital space with a cultivated following that it’s uploaded to.
No OnlyFans definitely own that means of production although it’s arguably more akin to a feudal economic relationship as without looking into it I’m going to assume OnlyFans takes a cut and will accept correction if that’s wrong.
that feudal relationship is basically because OnlyFans (the company) is a more sophisticated than usual pimp in their business model
It is also worth noting that we are here talking about the extreme higher end of sex work and far and away not a representative sample of the level to which the industry as a whole relies on violence to control the worker’s bodies
