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I’m going to jump off a bridge. We are never going to achieve liberation, the imperial core will forever be self-obsessed people that care about personal validation over people’s liberation and we will be talking about fucking deer pronouns until the last drop of potable water evaporates or the last two “leftists” burn to death from climate disaster.

Why do neopronouns come before Imperialism and Capitalism? Is Imperialism not the primary contradiction in the world rn? I’m sorry but I’m a Marxist, my understanding of the world and the struggles we face is informed by dialectics. The order of priorities has been accepted for decades by Marxists that actually fight for liberation. If we have to wait for everyone to be comfortable using deer pronouns before we achieve liberation for the exploited masses we might as well kill ourselves now because it’s never going to happen.

Gatekeeping the left over shit like neopronouns is the biggest gift to reactionaries we could give them.

The vast majority of people are not ever going to be comfortable with deer pronouns and that’s just a fact. What you’re saying is that we must box these people out until they’re sufficiently compliant with radical social values held by a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people in the world.

Like I don’t care. I will call you a deer if it makes you happy. But I’m not everyone, and the struggles for Liberation needs mass support. Not just locally or domestically but globally. People are saying “if you don’t use neopronouns you’re not a leftist” and all I can think is “would a devout muslim refugee whose family was slaughtered by US-funded wahhabists be comfortable using neopronouns, and would we box them out of the struggle of they weren’t”

I mean, maybe they would, but I’m not sure you’ve spent a lot of time with people from the global south if you think that’s even the more likely scenario let alone the probable one. Most immigrants I’ve known, and I’ve known a lot working on construction sites and in retail in high-diversity areas, are pretty socially conservative and religious. Religious values aren’t any less important to them than they are to our domestic fundamentalists.

It wouldn’t affect them at all, so they’d probably do the decent thing and call people by their pronouns.

Okay, I appreciate you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but come on.

STFU. Are you stupid on purpose? TALKING ABOUT PRONOUNS is not what is stopping “liberation”. You are creating the problem by not using people’s pronouns- you literally admit to not seeing yourself using people’s pronouns. JUST USE PEOPLES PRONOUNS. you don’t need to understand neo-pronouns to respect them. and FYI not being misgendered isnt about “personal validation” it is a serious and harmful action to misgender someone.

I don’t misgender people, but you’re wrong, it is about personal validation. Like you’re literally validating someone’s personal gender identity by calling them correct pronouns. Misgendering someone is about as serious and harmful as calling someone a fat fuck, it’s mean and can probably do real emotional damage, but it’s not the same as cops executing black men for reaching in their pocket or the military drone striking a hospital.

Please just log off and reflect or something. Something does not need to kill you to be important. Not having your correct pronoun used may not bomb or shoot you but it does serious mental harm- being invalidated isolates you and harms you. Affirmation at no cost to you is harmless. Why would it be harmful for you to just use pronouns as people indicate they want you to. Even if you don’t get it.

First of all, I literally started that comment with “I don’t misgender people” so idk why people keep saying “just use the pronouns”. I do.

Second, my problem is that western leftists care way more about the “serious mental harm” of people in the global north over the absolute physical slaughter of people in the global south, or even people in marginalized communities in the global north. The social gatekeeping is an exercise in extreme privilege that is severely fucking grim.

You can’t compare two distinct issues like this by doing a well what about this also serious issue. No one here disagrees western leftists should help the global south. Why can you also not work on your own biases? You really seem to be disregarding the identities of people as unserious and a waste of time.

I don’t need to work on personal biases lol. I’m not a transphobe. I don’t think they’re invalid, I don’t believe in biological essentialism, I respect people’s pronouns and I stand up for trans people when they’re disrespected. I have been for a while, starting with 10 years ago when I made a scene at a diner after they kicked out a trans woman for using the women’s room. People keep trying to read transphobia out of a genuine concern for the navel-gazing of the western left.

And I’m sorry, but people’s identities being validated is objectively less important than people’s physical bodies being protected. That doesn’t mean you can’t care about both, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that there is a social gatekeeping where you create teams where “if you abide by all these social rules you can be on our side, otherwise fuck you”. We will spend endless days talking about pronouns but people get bored talking about things that are 100% essential for any liberators movement to address.

I think you responded to the wrong person, this isn’t the person who said they don’t see themselves using people’s pronouns

Sorry!! My bad I meant to @Bread_In_Baltimore who had that shit take. Literally typed too fast.

You did, its just that Bread and Lad are two different posters and I think you merged their shit takes into one super shit take

unless my boy whom I love @Bread_In_Baltimore also said he cant see himself using people’s pronouns.

say it ain’t so

It’s both of them lmao. Scroll up they are competing for most stupid in the world. Lad commented- I responded- Bread responded to my comment with more whining.

damn, you’re right :deeper-sadness:

I’m sorry, I’m fighting for my friend here and she for her comrade. Pardon me if I don’t appreciate shitheads like this lad who invalidate deer.

OK, sure. Let’s say I give you this one. Can you give me an example how I would use doe/deer as a pronoun to refer to a person.

Deer pronouns are doe/deer, and doe has used them for a long time.

It’s pretty simple in this case for the most part, doe/deer can be largely used as she/her would. If you’d otherwise say she say doe, if you’d say her use deer.

I genuinely dont mean this in any offensive way, but I had no idea what your first sentence was even supposed to mean until I realized you were talking about a person after 3 or 4 re-reads and I was literally the person to ask you for an example.

It kind of defeats the purpose of a pronoun if nobody realizes it is even referring to a person when it is used. I am arguing from a point of practicality whereas your opinion is very clearly emotionally charged considering this is your friends preferred pronouns which is understandable.

I feel that this specific discussion has only minor relevance to transgenderism overall, and is a bit more complex than that.

I genuinely dont mean this in any offensive way, but I had no idea what your first sentence was even supposed to mean

You’re new to this concept and having some trouble getting your head around it, that’s how it goes. It’s kind of hard to conceptualize at first, it was for me. But that’s no excuse for refusing to try

How does it defeat the purpose when deer pronouns are going to be on deer posts? It will make it easier, obviously there’s gonna be some confusion but what’s wrong with that? It’s just an adjustment period.

Not to mention how valuable that getting normalized could be for people.

imagine if you were a comrade lurking here who goes by a neopronoun sees how much trouble it caused with the majority cishet population, how it might not be worth it to be able to be comfortable and expressive of themself in an online space for expressing oneself among comrades lest they have to see garbage posts like your complaining about a part of who they are.

Cause guess what that’s not hypothetical, that’s what you’ve done here

Do you see how your attitude is the one that’s defeating the purpose here?

No one’s asking you to get a neopronoun, no ones asking you to think they’re cool, just respect it when a human being shares how they prefer being reffered to

Why is it somehow your job to decide the line here?

You say minor, I say small % of the population, but the thing is that does not reduce the significance of showing the bare minimum solidarity wtf.

While its a small subset of the community, who’s to say how many more would be more comfortable with a neopronoun if it were a widespread concept.

My problem is this is the western left. This is what we are. If we continue this way we will be rounded up and fucking shot and the immense suffering in the world will chug along until the last sucker gasps their last breath of air. This is an exercise in privilege that would make any self-respecting global south Communist execute every one of us on sight, myself included.

Calling Chapotistas the “western left” is perhaps too high a praise. What percentage of people here actually organize or act on their ideology?

No one using this website will be rounded up and shot because no one on this website is of political or economic importance. The most obvious leftward party in the United States is… the DSA. What does that tell you?

My point stands, bridges are looking pretty tempting

I mean it’s not far off. There is a reason that regular people from marginalized communities roll their eyes at us. I can’t fathom the reaction that any of the poor black folks or immigrants I work with on the regular seeing this shit. If people want to talk about alienating potential comrades, I think that’s the direction I’d take the conversation.

So trans people aren’t capable of being poor, black, immigrants or marginalized, then?

There is no need for you to intentionally misrepresent his position like that.

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