âyou donât want to support a bunch of nazis. Go russia.â
A big part of why I ended up hear in hexbear is because itâs one of the only places where everybody doesnât lie about your beliefs to just off handedly dismiss your concerns.
Itâs really interesting how everybody actually in this sub talks about how itâs bad Russia invaded and theyâre deffinitly aggressors and denounce them, we just think nazis are bad.
At a certain point after seeing dozens of people say âyou said nazis are bad therefore you support russiaâ you kind of stop giving a shit what the people actively lying abaout you are saying.
Weâre sating we donât support a bunchbof nazis.
Dumbshit libs then have to insist that itâs because weâre just a bunch of Russian nationalists, because otherwise they might have to wrestle with the thought that theyâre frothing mad at people for saying nazis are bad.
A big part of why I ended up hear in hexbear is because itâs one of the only places where everybody doesnât lie about your beliefs to just off handedly dismiss your concerns.
Ok, then I wonât lie and will state the truth as bluntly as possible. I personally think the anti-Russia stance of western socialists is chauvinist and incoherent and have argued as much constantly here, with mixed support. As I have explained down below, itâs a western socialistâs revolutionary defeatist duty to oppose their own empire by being a fifth column and critically supporting its enemies. Lenin was quite clear on this, it does not mean passive fence sitting and both-sidesism. It in fact, is much the opposite. Itâs active attacks on oneâs own imperialist government through organized activity to interfere with NATO war funds, NATO war supplies, NATO war support, etc.
Itâs an incoherent position to say âI oppose my nationâs imperialism but I also oppose the enemies of my nationâ. You donât get to say both. We can argue if the invasion in February 2022 was a strategic error or not, but that doesnât really matter because we are not Russian war strategizers. We are western socialists. Do you understand your place and role? Itâs to weaken your empire, and if you can work with its enemies to do so you should.
Itâs really interesting how everybody actually in this sub talks about how itâs bad Russia invaded and theyâre deffinitly aggressors and denounce them, we just think nazis are bad.
Z. Russia is defending itself and I support their invasion. I think Nazis are bad and need violent action taken against them when they build up concentrated military power. Iâm glad someone is finally doing it, despite Putin being a liberal cuck who waited 8 years too long to do it - strung along by EU perfidy.
Iâve definitely come around from âwar is bad, no one should be at warâ to âthe elimination of reactionary forces, specifically those who adorn nazi regalia, is paramount to the continuation of humanityâ. Is Russia perfect, no; is Russia killing Nazis at a faster rate than the rest of the world, absolutely yes. Do I want every Nazi in the world dead yesterday, yes; who is going to deliver that goal, Russia; who isnât going to deliver that goal, US and NATO.
I understand where you are coming from but I have a hard time squaring the circle of âUS involvement in the middle east only caused further explosion of extremismâ and then acting as if Russia invading Ukraine wonât have the same effect with what they claim to be fighting.
I do think itâs bad Russia invaded but also both parties are the aggressor here. NATO has been gearing up for this kind of conflict since at least the early 90s. The coup in 2014 was like the dress rehearsal for right now.
Russia invading was honestly a strategic mistake and itâs a tragedy this came to open warfare, but itâs not like Russia invaded for no reason, or only to secure power for its own sake. The separatists have been fighting in the region for a while.
While the start of the war might have been different, at this point though NATO is the primary aggressor. They refuse any calls for ceasefire from the Russian side, they continue flooding Ukraine with guns, they keep up the message theyâll keep fighting until even Crimea is Ukraine again. Just these impossible lofty goals designed to keep the war churning. NATO loves this war. Theyâve cemented Ukraine as a permanent ally against Russia and they have cause to stir up another permanent war. More quagmires.
But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it Iâve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.
Itâs a complete oversimplificationâand this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while itâs true of liberals because itâs a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), itâs also very true of whatâs happening here.
People who paint themselves as communist are saying âUkraine = Nazis,â and just because Russia has a communist history, see âRussia=communist.â
Itâs the same sickness thatâs completely rotten in the US: a massive oversimplification for ease of allegiance to your stated party/ideals. This one is just painted communist and therefore is getting praised around here.
People who paint themselves as communist are saying âUkraine = Nazis,â and just because Russia has a communist history, see âRussia=communist.â
This is a straight-up inversion of reality, literally nobody on Hexbear believes Russia is a communist country, do you seriously think we are unaware of the collapse of the Soviet Union or the fact Putin was one of the butchers of Russian communism? Ironically, itâs liberals who seem unaware of the soviet collapse and still thirty years later try to present Russians as being âethnically-communistâ or have you completely missed liberal rhetoric over the last year?
Also âUkraine = Nazis" isnât an oversimplification, itâs an accurate description of current Ukrainian political economy, as this latest Waffen SS episode has so blatantly demonstrated
People are calling Ukraine a nazi state because it is full of nazi apologists, is full of nazi symbolism, their national heroes are nazis, their military is full of nazis, they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on. Plenty of people here speak on the tragedy that Ukrainians are experiencing but that doesnât mean you ignore the nazis, who at a minimum served as the tail âwagging the dogâ of the Ukrainian state escalating violence in the conflict with the DPR and LPR, cascading into the war.
No one is saying Russia = communist. By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia. Talking for myself, I am mostly horrified at the complete acceptance and triumphalism that nazis have received in the west in the past couple of years. I imagine most users of this site feel the same way. I repeatedly talk with people IRL about this conflict that goes into history and context for why Russia is not insane nor evil for this war, despite it still being a tragedy, and I get a lot of people who call me a putinbot, tankie, or some equivalent thought terminating cliche.
I think a lot of people have chosen a side because we have not been meaningfully allowed a voice to advocate for peaceful diplomatic measures. Calls for peace and diplomacy are met with accusations of russian propaganda. Nazi membership is merely russian propaganda now. So, for many, these are the sides and you have to choose one or the other and some US leftists are choosing revolutionary defeatism, sometimes it has a more vulgar pro-russia/anti-nazi stance but itâs wayy better than the vulgar pro-nazi stance lmao.
they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on.
The Waffen-SS guy is a Ukrainian-Canadian. He was ratlined to Canada after WW2 (along with a lot of other Ukrainian Nazis). There are a huge number of monuments to Nazi collaborators in Canada. Modern Ukraineâs only involvement with this specific Nazi is Zelensky applauding for him and Canada bringing him on to honor Ukraine.
By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia.
Thanks for saying this. WW2 Ukraine did more to fight Fascism than any nation other than Russia. Ukrainians who fought against Fascism outnumber the Nazi collaborators by over 10 to 1. Ukraine did more to defeat the Nazis than all the western allies combined. Itâs shameful how modern Ukraine and the entire west idolize the collaborators and spit in the face of those who fought against the Nazis.
People who paint themselves as communist are saying âUkraine = Nazis,â and just because Russia has a communist history, see âRussia=communist.â
Ukrainian fascists control the Ukrainian government while Russian communists are just controlled opposition with no real power in Russia.
Just want to say that although the KPRF is not what it once was (lol), I think itâs better than controlled opposition. The fact that the western press never mentions it and that the vast majority of Americans are unaware of its existence entirely is proof enough for me that imperialists donât trust it and that it is actually a threat to them.
But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it Iâve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.
Propaganda that praising and clapping for literal Nazi jew killers is bad actually? Why is that propaganda and not just simple, blunt truth that Canada self-owned with? Russia didnât make Canada clap for the jew killer and thank him for his service, they did that all on their own because itâs who they are.
Itâs a complete oversimplificationâand this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while itâs true of liberals because itâs a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), itâs also very true of whatâs happening here.
Whatâs a complete oversimplification? Be explicit, what is being oversimplified? That Canada is filled with tens of thousands of Ukrainian Nazis that they purposefully accepted into their country to break the pro-labor Ukrainian diaspora that existed there pre-WW2? The decades of historical revisionism and nazi apologetics becoming mainstream that allow for this to happen? This was all consciously pushed by your leaders, who are nazi sympathetic. If anything, the oversimplification is that this makes like a little whoopsie by 1 Canadian MP instead of part of a decades long Nazi project by Canadian elites specifically, and western elites more broadly.
NATO was staffed top to bottom with Nazis. Operation Aerodynamic began funding and spreading nazi ideology in Ukraine before the bodies were even cleaned up from Nazi genocide. The west installed fascists and Nazis into power in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine, Indonesia, West Germany and dozens of other places. This is who they are.
I am torn, I go back and forth. The main polity I blame is the US for just endless reasons, but mainly the maidan coup. That Iâm consistent on. I go back and forth on if Russiaâs invasion is justified. My gut instinct, like you, is to say that war is bad so Russia, while reacting to real hostilities from the greater west, should not have resorted to invasion.
The powerful posters at Hexbear keep reminding me that Russia did hold off for 8 years. Ukraine and NATO lied about Minsk. And when you think about the people of Donbas, it makes Russia feel more justified. Ukraine has been bombing itâs own cities for nearly a decade. Do those people deserve to suffer? Obviously this war is terrible for the average Ukrainian, but so it is for the Russian speaking Ukrainians.
