Hexbear

5 points

4 years ago

But not the caste system? What about sweatshops? Persecution of minorities? Slavery in an informal sense existed in China up until 1949; in fact, Japan cited it as one of the reasons China needed to be civilized. Is that okay?

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lad [none/use name]@hexbear.net

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13 points

4 years ago

This may also be a controversial take here but the Soviets helping Mao take over China was also good.

Those other things are bad too but legalized slavery is worse, imo. (hot take!)

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4 points

4 years ago

Well, the Soviets actually were in favor of supporting the GMD up until the last years of the civil war, but yes, Mao taking over China was good. But again, the Japanese wanted to modernize the country. Also good? Casteism essentially promotes a slavery system of itself. Should the British have abolished it?

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lad [none/use name]@hexbear.net

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13 points

4 years ago

The Empire of Japan wanted to modernize China! Yep, for sure.

The soviets were in favour of supporting anti-empire of japan forces (another good thing) and then when the empire of Japan was defeated, they switched their support to the communists in order to liberate the mainland (also a good thing).

Caste systems are bad yes, an empire is much more likely to leave a caste system in place however as the isolation of the people from one another is actually a bonus to oppressive regimes. What did the brits do again?

Although the varnas and jatis have pre-modern origins, the caste system as it exists today is the result of developments during the post-Mughal period and the British colonial period, which made caste organisation a central mechanism of administration.

o yea lol

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10 points

4 years ago

The Soviets did not switch their support to the CCP. Initially, in fact, Stalin told the CCP to stand down, and he signed a trade agreement with Chiang Kai-Shek, and “Even as late as 1949, Stalin advised the CCP leaders to avoid provoking US intervention and stop disseminating forces at the Yangtze River, to reach an agreement with the GMD, and perhaps even to accept a partition of the country through a coalition government”. Cool story.

Also, yes, obviously the British made caste worst. But they also proclaimed that they were in India to destroy the excesses of the system (for example, attempting to outlaw the practice of Untouchability, destroy the practice of sati) etc. I am not saying that the British were somehow a progressive force. The point is they certainly believed they were, that they were there to civilize.

Also, in regards to Japan and China, AGAIN the point was using the EXCUSE OF MODERNIZATION to invade a fucking country. Again, China got rid of slavery in Tibet. Yes. But slavery was not as widespread as people claim, and they did not invade TIbet TO get rid of slavery. There were geopolitical, cynical interests. Whether you want to condemn those is entirely up to you, but to ignore them is just idiocy.

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lad [none/use name]@hexbear.net

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6 points

4 years ago

The Soviets did not switch their support to the CCP. Initially, in fact, Stalin told the CCP to stand down, and he signed a trade agreement with Chiang Kai-Shek, and “Even as late as 1949, Stalin advised the CCP leaders to avoid provoking US intervention and stop disseminating forces at the Yangtze River, to reach an agreement with the GMD, and perhaps even to accept a partition of the country through a coalition government”. Cool story.

Wow weird that the soviets would give all the guns they got in Manchuria from the disarmed Japanese army to the communists then. And that they propped up the Second East Turkestan Republic to specifically target the KMT. And refused KMT forces entrance into occupied Manchuria (having to be air lifted in by the united states lmao) in violation of the surrender terms. Then proceeded to arm Mao with both the guns from the Japanese as well a substantial amount of soviet arms.

In March 1946, despite repeated requests from Chiang, the Soviet Red Army under the command of Marshal Rodion Malinovsky continued to delay pulling out of Manchuria, while Malinovsky secretly told the CPC forces to move in behind them, which led to full-scale war for the control of the Northeast. These favorable conditions also facilitated many changes inside the Communist leadership: the more radical hard-line faction who wanted full military bloodshed and warfare to take-over China finally gained the upper hand and defeated the careful opportunists.[43] Prior to giving control to Communist leaders, on March 27 Soviet diplomats requested a joint venture of industrial development with the Nationalist Party in Manchuria.[44]

:thinkin-lenin: :thinkin-lenin: :thinkin-lenin:

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4 points

4 years ago

The Soviets forced the GMD to make concessions in 45 with their friendship treaty, particularly in Manchuria. They gave weapons to the CCP but then ordered them to retreat because they didn’t want rail lines to warm water ports in the region to be damaged.

Again, as I’ve already quoted, the Soviets discouraged conflict with the GMD, wanted a united front government, and didn’t believe Mao could win. The archival evidence is all there.

Regarding the ETR, the Soviets had already been holding sway in Xinjiang before via Sheng Shicai. The ETR was an attempt to perhaps encourage the province to have close relations with Soviet Central Asia. The ccp denounced the ETR and in fact essentially dismantled it. And then designed their whole policy around discouraging any Soviet influence in the region.

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bot [comrade/them]@hexbear.net

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4 points

4 years ago

Deleted by creator

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5 points

4 years ago

GMD and CCP are usually much more common. KMT is generally almost only exclusively used to refer to the party as it exists in Taiwan at the moment, though this is a somewhat recent change. I’ve actually never read a historian that uses CPC instead of CCP, poli sci people are somewhat different however.

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