Permanently Deleted

The progressives have a clear opportunity to express political power.

To do what? What is there to gain, and what is the risk?

They definitely don’t have the power to actually pass any policy, that’s for sure.

There are people demanding

Who? A talking head, or is there real support from a bunch of actual people?

They definitely don’t have the power to actually pass any policy, that’s for sure.

Of course they are not going to pass any policy. Anyone who thinks they are is delusional. So, they need to find other ways to score political wins.

As I said before:

Every single swing state Democrat who opposed M4A lost. Opposing health care during a pandemic is incredibly unpopular. Every Democratic M4A “no” vote is an open progressive seat in 2022.

The Democratic base is extremely pro-M4A. Exposing all the Democrats who oppose it is good. Many conservative Democrats get by just saying “I support affordable health care for all” when their constituents want M4A.

Who? A talking head

All of the social democratic media is supporting it, and it is receiving a positive response.

is there real support from a bunch of actual people?

90% of the Democratic Party (70% of the country) support M4A. It is not that surprising they would support a vote on it. Most people do not have pundit-brain.

Of course they are not going to pass any policy.

The default assumption should be that this is performative, then.

Exposing all the Democrats who oppose it is good.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, it doesn’t take much to arrange the votes so that it just fails in the House, and then you have all but a handful of Democrats on record supporting M4A. Now it’s easier for the ghouls of the party to run on their “support” of it. And it would take even less to have every single House Democrat vote to pass it and then watch it die in the Senate.

There’s some value to this idea, but how much is an open question. A comparable vote would be the recent one on decriminalizing marijuana – the House passed it, but it’s going nowhere. That moves the needle a bit, sure, but ultimately it’s not much.

All of the social democratic media is supporting it

Who? I’ve heard Jimmy Dore supporting it, who isn’t exactly a household name, but that’s it. And M4A being popular among the Democratic base =/= the Democratic base demanding a vote that will not produce M4A.

So all we can do is just talk idly about policies that we may or may not support in our own respective camps, but when it comes to actually voting them into law… it’s just performative to even attempt to sway party leadership into doing so?

sounds like hypocrisy or nefarious hand-waving either way

They claim they can never do anything because it’s all performative, but then say shit like “we can’t 100 years for M4A, we need it now.” Their current tactics are no different than any other Democratic Progressive Caucus.

I haven’t paid attention to the Democratic Party in awhile, this shit is insane lol

it’s self-deluded & schizophrenic to both desire revolution & reform at the same time lol

but when it comes to actually voting them into law

That’s not what we’re talking about, though. We’re talking about a vote (the House speaker election) to force a vote (the House vote on M4A) that is still unlikely – at best – to pass anything into law.

If you force a vote you know will fail, yes, odds are that’s performative. It might have some value, but that’s debatable.

so you’re saying participation in liberal democratic electoral politics amounts to performative & dilatory complacency?

hey, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you!

Voting something into law isn’t performative. A vote that will fail but has some real consequences – e.g., the people who vote “no” are likely to get bounced – probably isn’t performative either.

But if you know a vote will fail, and you know there will likely be no consequences for its opponents? Yeah, probably performative.

Now it’s easier for the ghouls of the party to run on their “support” of it.

They do that now with the “co-sponsors” list.

Who?

So far, I’ve seen TYT, The Hill, Jimmy Dore, Kyle Kulinski - the entire Justice Democrat world seems to be pushing it. That seems like the largest networks supporting progressives, which means the largest viewership supporting progressives.

M4A being popular among the Democratic base =/= Democratic base demanding a vote that will not produce M4A

The Democratic base wants M4A. Why would putting it for a vote be so controversial? I don’t understand that

Showing people which Democratic members do not support M4A is useful for the Democratic base.

They do that now with the “co-sponsors” list.

So… this would be no different? I’m not seeing a whole lot of benefit here, certainly not if the Senate stays Republican. I don’t know when the speaker will be elected; maybe they’re waiting to get the Senate results in.

The Democratic base wants M4A. Why would putting it for a vote be so controversial?

Well, look at the discussion in this thread. It’s not simply “do you want M4A, yes or no?” M4A likely isn’t even on the table, so we’re talking about secondary, non-material, tactical benefits, the value of which is debatable. It’s reasonable to think a list of who voted for the bill would be more valuable than the co-sponsors list, but it’s also reasonable to think that’s not gaining much at all. It’s reasonable to think the risk of centrist Democrats calling the bluff and forcing a choice between Pelosi/no M4A vote or a Republican speaker is worth it, but it’s reasonable to think that could blow up in our faces, too.

about secondary, non-material, tactical benefits, the value of which is debatable

No we are not. We are talking about demonstrating to people that progressives will fight for health care. Right now, they are all talk on the issue on everyone’s mind right now.

this would be no different?

No it is not.

If progressive were to run with the attack line: “[dipshit politician] voted against health care in a pandemic.” right now, they would be lying. That line of attack would be important for insurgents, since 90% of Democrats support M4A.

It’s reasonable to think the risk of centrist Democrats calling the bluff and forcing a choice between Pelosi/no M4A vote or a Republican speaker is worth it

You need to play politics in the Democratic Party. Blue Dogs drag the House right every election by threatening to withhold their vote.

If you are going to play liberal democracy, at least put some thought into it. I feel like Democrat Entryists never do that.

Right now, they are all talk on the issue on everyone’s mind right now.

But this is all talk, too – it’s not going to produce M4A. At most it will produce a few targets for primary campaigns, and it’s not even guaranteed to do that.

“[dipshit politician] voted against health care in a pandemic.”

Right now they can just say “[dipshit politician] is on record against M4A.” I don’t see the difference. And every single congressional Democrat could vote in favor of M4A and it is still virtually guaranteed to fail, so it might even put us in a worse spot than where we are now.

Blue Dogs drag the House right every election by threatening to withhold their vote

Pelosi is much closer to Blue Dog Democrats than she is to the AOC/Bernie wing of the party. And threatening to withhold your vote is a good strategy only if you get something valuable from it. I don’t see the value here.

THE MAIN RULE: ALL TEXT POSTS MUST CONTAIN “MAIN” OR BE ENTIRELY IMAGES (INLINE OR EMOJI)

(Temporary moratorium on main rule to encourage more posting on main. We reserve the right to arbitrarily enforce it whenever we wish and the right to strike this line and enforce mainposting with zero notification to the users because its funny)

A hexbear.net commainity. Main sure to subscribe to other communities as well. Your feed will become the Lion’s Main!

Good comrades mainly sort posts by hot and comments by new!

State-by-state guide on maintaining firearm ownership

Domain guide on mutual aid and foodbank resources

Tips for looking at financials of non-profits (How to donate amainly)

Community-sourced megapost on the main media sources to radicalize libs and chuds with

An Amainzing Organizing Story

Main Source for Feminism for Babies

Maintaining OpSec / Data Spring Cleaning guide

Remain up to date on what time is it in Moscow

Permanently Deleted(deleted.com)

Main

!main@hexbear.net

THE MAIN RULE: ALL TEXT POSTS MUST CONTAIN “MAIN” OR BE ENTIRELY IMAGES (INLINE OR EMOJI)

Community stats

Community moderators