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You’re not going to get rid of the concept of physical beauty. It’s ok to be attracted to certain body types or whatever, as long as you recognise these aren’t objective things, and that socialisation has warped your “natural” inclinations to some degree.
As a woman (and speaking only for myself), I don’t want to be seen as just an object. I also don’t want to be seen as a bodyless mind, floating in a cognitive, sexless void.
My body and how I present it is part of me, a sexual object is a facet of who I am and sometimes, in specific circumstances, what I want to be seen as. But it’s never what I only want to be seen as.
Basically, don’t be a shithead, be clear about your own preferences, and remember there’s a person behind the attractive presentation you’re casting a sidelong glance at, a person who has chosen that presentation for reasons that most of the time have nothing to do with you.
tl:dr, Boobies are hot, remember there’s a person attached.
An appeal to nature is an argument or rhetorical tactic in which it is proposed that “a thing is good because it is ‘natural’, or bad because it is ‘unnatural’”.[1] It is generally considered to be a bad argument because the implicit (unstated) primary premise “What is natural is good” is typically irrelevant, having no cogent meaning in practice, or is an opinion instead of a fact. In some philosophical frameworks where natural and good are clearly defined within a specific context, the appeal to nature might be valid and cogent.
Appeal to nature is a well trod logical fallacy. You would have to answer the question “Why would attraction being more natural make it better?”
For that matter, how are you even measuring better or worse?
And those are more useful lines of inquiry that can lead you to an interrogation of phenomenon like hyper-sexualization and the commodification of sex and aesthetics under capitalism. But those things aren’t bad because of where they exist on a scale from natural-unnatural, those things are bad because of the harm that they manifest for the people that experience those things.
it is 12:51AM CDT and by God I am linking the Xenofeminist Manifesto
Not OP, dont think there’s a way to completely uncondition yourself and become 100% “natural”. We’re at our core cultural and therefore socialized. To unravel that completely is to dehumanize yourself, if that makes sense.
I think the most we can hope for is to find the problematic preferences that are underpinned by sexism, racism, and different “body phobias” and try and move past them as best we can
Hence the quote brackets. Natural is of course itself an artificial category. Nothing unnatural exists.
What I’m saying is that we’ve been socialised, and some of that has fucked us up. But it’s also part of who we are, and if it isn’t causing us distress or hurting others materially, a few problematic kinks or social attitudes floating around your head are not that bad.
For instance, do I like pretty dresses because they’re beautiful and I like them and their aesthetic inherently? Or because I grew up exposed to an endless barrage of Disney Princesses and other exhortations to femininity? Fucked if I know, but the latter probably had its effect.
I’m not sure what you’re saying.
That you’re generally only seen by others as an industrial object in physical reality and want to be seen as both a person and an object of attraction (which is probably not true even in US hellworld, people anthropomorphise or sexualise other people accidentally all the time, crossing the street, at the counter, etc. Only through the constant watchfulness of the Volcel Police does society remain from falling into an abyss of consensual humanistic horniness!)
Or that your conception of yourself is as a mental entity with no attachment to the physical (in which case super cool, you do what makes you happy! Not everyone has as visceral an attachment to physicality as I do.)
Or that you wish others saw you as a pure creature of mind (Which, if you do, they should. They’re probably not going to because of the above chronic horniness, but they should try.)
I’m not sure what everyone else’s motivations behind their advice are here, but every comment I’ve made on your threads HP has been made with the goal of helping you worry less about all this stuff, even though I know it’s not as easy as just removing yourself from the matrix of gender, sexuality, power, and desire. There is probably not a Hugh Hefner hiding inside of you. As you are, I think your instincts about how to actually treat people with respect are better than you might think, and you pose a greater threat to yourself than to anyone else.
Yeah maybe you got a whole bunch of psychosexual hangups and fetishes from decades of pop media and porn and being hurt or helped by various adults in positions of authority, and maybe You Too Have A Libidinous Impulse, you poor bastard. You’re not going to will or worry that stuff away. The only way these dialectics are gonna get resolved is through real world application. Beauty is in the sheets. Love not with fear, but with care.
Situation matters, but people want to be sexualized sometimes (bar, club, etc.) and people who are visibly disabled or describe themselves as unattractive often talk about how they wish they were sexualized, AKA seen as people with sexual capacity
any response to this post which isn’t, log off and go outside, is wrong.
For some reason people on the internet like very much to come up with lots and lots of complicated rules and half baked “theoretical” justifications for what is good and normal and what isn’t, and it gets very weird. Another thing that people do is examine how some pretty fundamental aspect of social interactions came to be the way it is, find something in that process problematic, and decide that it’s immoral to do it. Beauty standards is one of those things, yeah, maybe they are problematic and all, but if that’s what someone finds attractive, that’s normal and cool and it really doesn’t matter so much, it is what it is. In 30 years hopefully society will be better. That you try to make it better is all that matters, not what you are attracted to.
It’s not bad to be attracted to stuff. And you really shouldn’t worry that the way you are attracted to people is “shallow” or “objectifying”. It probably only makes everything worse. Now if every time you see a woman that’s all you think, that may be a little bit of an issue but you’re not gonna fix it just by worrying, neither are Internet weirdos gonna fix it for you. It may just be alienation, repression, lack of sexual contact, etc. But you really really shouldn’t hate your attraction to women, that’s not where the problem may lie, if there is a problem.
What is annoying to many people sometimes is when dudes are constantly outwardly horny. Like, you see a woman, right? And you think she looks pretty hot. Maybe keep it to yourself if you don’t think it will be welcomed. Beyond that it’s fiiiine. Don’t worry about it. Unless it’s so much that it seeps into all your relationships with people and makes you incapable of seeing women any other way. Then it’s something you have to work out, but you’re not gonna work it out by just blanket hating your attraction, which, again, is super normal and OK. In fact the problem may start and end with you just thinking and worrying about this too much.
For real you might be spending too much time in weird parts of the Internet. That or you had some kind of repressed upbringing if you’ve ended up hating your sexual attraction. If it’s the first maybe you shouldn’t pay so much attention to it any more because it is damaging you.
For real you might be spending too much time in weird parts of the Internet.
if by weird parts of the internet, you mean this site, where woke fatwahs are issued if you ironically mention AOC’s feet, then yes.
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Yes
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They’re right to shout at you for obsessively being outwardly horny about AOC or whomever else, yes.
Allow me to explain: it’s normal and healthy to be horny but do it somewhere else
Another thing that people do is examine how some pretty fundamental aspect of social interactions came to be the way it is, find something in that process problematic, and decide that it’s immoral to do it.
This is like one of the foundations of fucking leftism. Find the sick aspects of human society and calling them out.
Not really, this specific brand of hyper-focused, individualized, shouting at the void moralizing weirdness mostly came out of progressive liberal spaces around the 1980s and it got popular because of the Internet.
Edit: oh I just noticed the username, good bit.
No I disagree. In the past leftism was filled with a lot of utopian bs like how the “seas would turn to lemonade” and hedonistic crap like that. After the shit show that was the counter culture of the 60s and 70s a lot of leftists (mostly women and queer people) realized that was just a cover for a bunch of libertarian behavior focused on using others for self gratification. Really leftism is about creating spaces of safety where people can escape the chaos and pain of mainstream society’s sick orgy.
