Mine

  1. Vonnegut, specifically “Cat’s Cradle” (I know he’s a comrade, but I didn’t find that out until a decade after I read any of his work)

  2. Ursula LeGuin

  3. Kafka

  4. Camus

48 points
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Uhh I mean tbh what turned me to socialism really is that I just saw one of the subreddits talking about how bad ChapoTrapHouse was, and as somebody who is completely desensitized to most shock content (which is what I assumed it was) I had a look, and realized that this basically was what my politics was all along,

It’s a really boring answer but I always thought the way Lord of the Flies was portrayed and taught was stupid and that the conflict was arbitrary. Like, it’s okay in terms of pure writing style I guess but throughout reading it I always had a nagging feeling about its misrepresentation of human nature. I guess the fact that I was, from a young age, already questioning whether human nature really was to be selfish and greedy and all those things that very conveniently support the current system (even if I didn’t know what capitalism really was yet), rather than co-operative and sharing, because like, that’s what I would do in that situation. So maybe my exposure to ChapoTrapHouse came along just at the right time before I had that optimism beaten out of me by the world. I probably would have become an insufferable enlightened centrist otherwise, at least based on my immediate environment.

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22 points

My first time seeing “ChapoTrapHouse”, IDK I thought it had something to do with drugs.

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18 points

the drug is communism

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14 points

That’s definitely valid. What I’ve been thinking about, and what ultimately led me to asking this question, was whether or not those of us who’ve come to Marxism from privileged backgrounds needed a “priming” event. It could be a book, or a website, or a professor. If we’re honest with ourselves, many of us in the US and the West are approaching Marxism from a moral, rather than a material place. For now, my material conditions aren’t the worst, especially compared to someone in the global south. I guess there is still some optimist in me that thinks we can “wake up” the rest of the privileged to transition away from capitalism before the really horrible stuff eventually takes the treats away. In the end I just end up feeling like a douche because I feel like it makes me sound like I think I’m morally or intellectually superior to people who are still programmed by liberalism, when I truly don’t believe I am.

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14 points

“Lord of the flies” scenarios have happened a couple of times and if the kids didn’t all die of dysentery they generally did fine and organized a functional society where everyone helped each other.

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9 points

Same, happened across CTH subreddit circa 2016 during the primary, and loved all the top posts ripping on Hillary. Felt at home instantly. The theory followed shortly after.

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6 points

Lord of the Flies is also one of the books that gets taught wrong the most. If you don’t teach about the litterary conventions that the author was making a point about, then you end up with the babybrained take that it’s a comment on the ferocity of human nature, rather than the author having worked in an all boys boardingschool for english aristocratic kids, which are almost by nature completely insane. Pretty sure even the author said as much, though I can’t find the source for it currently, as I am posting at work.

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36 points

Steinbeck was a big one for me and grapes of wrath specifically.

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Grapes of Wrath namedrops Marx and Lenin and the most admirable, heroic characters are union organizers, I think it’s as explicitly leftist as popular culture gets short of openly agitating for an immediate communist revolution lol

Good choice though, that book pushed and affirmed my politics too.

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15 points

They tried to get me to read Grapes of Wrath in highschool without mentioning socialism and looking back all I can do is wonder why that was even in the curriculum if you weren’t trying to turn people in to commies.

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11 points

Yeah, it will make you angry.

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5 points
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Now you say it, yeah. Of Mice and Men was basically just this story of a bunch of guys trying to do the best with what they’ve got, earnestly wanting the “American Dream”™ and all getting totally fucked over and ground to dust by richies for it. I think my school spun it more as a “racism bad and y’know life’s just bad in general nobody to blame here”, but it’s clear in retrospect just how explicitly anti-capitalism that was (and also how it doesn’t care to accommodate people of any neurodivergence).

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29 points

Honestly; Going through the New Testament with a Jewish theologian in a completely non-Christian context. Once you get in to the nitty gritty of the politics and culture of the 1st century AD you start to appreciate how incredibly radical the philosophy laid out in the New Testament was, and how aggressively, albeit non-violently, anti-imperialist and anti-roman it was. I don’t consider Evangelicals to be Christians at all because I’ve studied their book and I know what the context for the stories are and they generally practice the exact opposite. Does it matter that they’re not Christians? Not really, but hypocrites piss me off and understanding the vile depths of their hypocrisy and violence means I’ve never felt any need to compromise with them or even really pay attention to whatever they’re saying.

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11 points

I don’t consider Evangelicals to be Christians at all

I was raised Catholic and was devout in my younger days. I truly believed. I even thought about the priesthood. I later realized I had no faith in a god, I had no ‘faith’ at all. But I was captivated by the teachings and believed in the ideas of love and forgiveness and the advocacy for the poor and the themes about redemption. There is a mountain of bullshit hiding behind the Catholic facade but I doubt you would have seen Liberation Theology come into being if Latin America had been conquered by evangelicals.

Becoming an agnostic/atheist allowed me to take a step back and see things more clearly. I said this before but Evangelicals are like LaVeyan satanists but they’re pretending its not self-worship. The cowardice to not own up to that is one of the biggest reasons I hate them. Own up to it, its hurting real people not the egos of theoretical gods, the misanthropy of evangelicals is more real than the god they profess to “worship.”

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3 points
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I took the Catholic to Communist pipeline and it was a surprisingly easy transition. I struggled for a few years over accepting my lack of faith, but once I realized the values I actually liked could be applied outside of faith, everything just sort of clicked. I also gave serious thought to the priesthood as a young Catholic.

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6 points
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I had a similar experience, but I self-radicalized into it in the early days of the Internet. Thankfully I had this stuff figured out before Reddit existed and never got poisoned by /r/atheism types.

I still have a fascination with playing Paladins/Clerics in tabletop RPGs, and I think it’s because I have this vision of a radical religious character that I came up with in those days but can’t quite get right. Imagine if Jesus and Lenin were the same person.

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7 points

People at the time wanted Jesus to be Lenin. The Messiah was supposed to be a warrior who was going to crush Rome in open combat and liberate Judea. Didn’t turn out that way, and the Jews are still waiting for their Messiah.

/r/Atheism and New Atheism in general have been a huge disappointment. Somehow “There is no god” turned in to a dumb, reactionary movement. Very disappointing.

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was this from a book or through a mentorship? I’d like to read that book!

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3 points

Oh god, it was twenty years ago. I wouldn’t be able to give you a reading list if I tried.

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24 points

I don’t think anything not explicitly socialist really pushed me to socialism.

I think some writers like Nietzsche and Pratchett made more critical of liberalism and the status-quo, but didn’t really offer a plausible alternative vision.

What really tipped me over the edge was reading colonial history (including Fanon) and realizing virtually every national liberation movement was Marxist which led me to investigating why that was true.

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17 points

Thank you for bringing up Nietzsche! I just finished a psych class with a professor who learned German so he could translate Nietzsche. Before this semester I hated Nietzsche so much, but this professor went on a tirade over how fascists had co-opted him. I can’t say I enjoy Nietzsche now, but I tolerate him.

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16 points

check out this article contrasting Marx and Nietzsche, I think it really gets to the heart of Nietzsche’s worldview

https://redsails.org/really-existing-fascism/

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14 points

Nietzsche is great, read up on eternal recurrence if you want to stop thinking about him as a nihilist.

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6 points

Isn’t the whole thing with nihilism that it’s not about being an edgy mcedgelord, but recognizing that there are no authentic external sources of wisdom and you ultimately have to decide for yourself what your beliefs and convictions are?

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10 points
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To me it seems like fascists and liberals compete to co-opt him.

He’s reactionary through-and-through but he is a compelling writer; whether he would have aligned with fascism or not, most non-aligned people who read him have good odds of having their anti-communist indoctrination cemented.

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10 points

He’s definitely an individualist and appeals to that mindset.

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I think that since Nietzsche is dialectical there’s always this interplay between his reactionary fascist side and the humanist side. I also had a prof argue for the centrality of The Birth of Tragedy to Nietzsche, that the Apollonian and Dionysian is really the core dialectic of his thinking.

Can’t deny he’s got his reactionary elements but a lot of that was also basically fury at the bourgeoise libs of his day.

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10 points

genuinely think pratchett had more of an effect on my understanding of the world than anyone but my mam and dad. like I’ve never really come to a satisfying conclusion as the what his politics even were, but the amount of ideas and his way of expressing them, and most of all the humanism in his books, hitting me as a kid who basically never read or thought about anything critically before was such a big thing.

good lad, terry

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23 points
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13 points

I know nothing about Terry Pratchett, sell me! (If you have the time and energy)

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16 points
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11 points

Comrade, this is absolutely wonderful. You’ve sold me! Really, thank you so much for sharing this. Amazing.

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7 points

Guards Guards is great for people who believe in police reform, because the Guards are exactly the kind of people you would want to be police; Kind, compassionate, dedicated, honest, (except Nobby), and devoted to protecting the people of the city, individually and collectively, whatever the odds, even if they need to be protected from themselves.

And you read this, and fall in love with them, and eventually realize that they behave exactly un-like cops in every detail and particular.

Also, Terry accidentally said Trans Rights before he even properly knew that Trans people were a thing, which is both cool for him as an individual, and cool to hear from someone who was extremely British.

He also has a series of books that center on young women who do things. Unlike a lot of fantasy authors from his era he always treated women characters seriously and, to the best of my knowledge, was never a creep about it.

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15 points
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The Discworld books are light, easy to read, and funny. They generally start out with a bunch of jokes about stock fantasy tropes and modern society, but they get less jokey and more serious (not incredibly serious) once you get attached to the characters and invested in the plot of the book. Then they become well written but fairly standard internal/external plot stuff, but you like all the characters because they made you laugh when you met them, and the actual meat of the plot is something new because it started out as a joke.

I’d start with Mort, but you could start with any sub-series and have a good time. (Though the early books starring Rincewind aren’t as good as the rest. )

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Thanks!

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10 points

I would also recommend Small Gods, it is brilliant and works well as a standalone if you want to get a feel for his writing style.

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7 points
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Terry Pratchett wrote the Discworld series, he’s a fantastic author with good takes and a better sense of humor. Discworld is awesome because it’s both self-serious, but whimsical at the same time.

Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness.

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes “Boots” theory of socioeconomic unfairness.


Descriptions of my top 3 Pratchett books:

(Going Postal and Good Omens both have really good TV adaptations)


Mort

As a teenager, Mort had a personality and temperament that made him rather unsuited to the family farming business. Mort’s father, named Lezek, felt that Mort thought too much, which prevented him from achieving anything practical. Thus, Lezek took him to a local hiring fair, hoping that Mort would land an apprenticeship with some tradesman; not only would this provide a job for his son, but it would also make his son’s propensity towards thinking someone else’s problem.

At the job fair, Mort at first has no luck attracting the interest of an employer. Then, just before the stroke of midnight, a man concealed in a black cloak arrives on a white horse. He says he is looking for a young man to assist him in his work and selects Mort for the job. The man turns out to be Death, and gives Mort an apprenticeship in ushering souls into the next world (though his father thinks he’s been apprenticed to an undertaker).

When it is a princess’ time to die (according to a preconceived reality), Mort, instead of ushering her soul, saves her from death, dramatically altering a part of the Discworld’s reality. Although, the princess, for whom Mort has a developing infatuation, does not have long to live, and he must try save her, once again, from a seemingly unstoppable death.

As Mort begins to do most of Death’s “duty”, he loses some of his former character traits, and essentially starts to become more like Death himself. Death, in turn, yearns to relish what being human is truly like and travels to Ankh-Morpork to indulge in new experiences and attempt to feel real human emotion. Conclusively, Mort must duel Death for Mort’s freedom.


Going Postal

Moist von Lipwig (aka Albert Spangler) is a skilful con artist. Nevertheless, he is confined to a cell in Ankh-Morpork and scheduled to be hanged, having stolen a total of AM$150,000. He is saved when his own death is faked and Lord Vetinari offers him a choice: he can walk out of the door (and fall to his death), or he can become Postmaster of the city’s run down Post Office. Lipwig chooses the latter, hoping that a chance to escape will present itself. Lipwig’s first and last escape attempt is thwarted by a golem named Mr Pump, previously called Pump 19 because he had spent the previous 250 years at the bottom of a well pumping water, who delivers Lipwig back to the office of the Patrician.

With great reluctance, Lipwig takes up his duties, only to find things are even worse than he had presumed. The Post Office has not functioned for decades, and the building is literally full of undelivered mail. Two eccentric employees remain: the aged Junior Postman Tolliver Groat, and Stanley Howler, a pin-obsessed boy who was raised by peas. They are more concerned about following the Post Office Regulations than seeing the postal system restored. There is also a Post Office cat, Mr. Tiddles, but it is even more set in its ways than its owners. Lipwig learns that within the last couple of months, while he was waiting to die in his prison cell, a whole string of newly-appointed Postmasters have met their own deaths in the Post Office building. Lipwig eventually discovers that most of the men were killed by failure to safely interact with a “ghost reality” which overlays the physical structure in the Post Office. A wizard at Unseen University explains to him that this phenomenon is caused by the fact that words have power, and masses of them are currently crammed into every available inch of space in the Post Office.


Good Omens

It is the coming of the End Times; the Apocalypse is near, and Final Judgment will soon descend upon the human race. This comes as a bit of bad news to the angel Aziraphale (who was the angel of the Garden of Eden) and the demon Crowley (who was the Serpent who tempted Eve to eat the apple), respectively the representatives of God and Satan on Earth, as they’ve actually gotten quite used to living their comfortable, lives and, in a perverse way, actually have taken a liking to humanity. As such, since they’re both good friends (despite supposedly being polar opposites, representing Good and Evil as they do), they decide to work together and keep an eye on the Antichrist, destined to be the son of a prominent American diplomat stationed in Britain, and thus ensure he grows up in a way that means he can never decide simply between Good and Evil and, therefore, postpone the end of the world.

Unfortunately, Warlock, the child everyone thinks is the Anti-Christ is, in fact, a perfectly normal eleven-year-old boy. Owing to a bit of a switch-up at birth, the real Anti-Christ is in fact Adam Young, a charismatic and slightly otherworldly eleven-year-old who, despite being the harbinger of the Apocalypse, has lived a perfectly normal life as the son of typically English parents and, as a result, has no idea of his true powers. As Adam blissfully and naively uses his powers, creating around him the world of Just William (because he thinks that’s what an English child’s life should be like), the race is on to find him — the Four Horsemen (or, rather, Bikers, owing to their motorcycles) of the Apocalypse assemble and the incredibly accurate (yet so highly specific as to be useless) prophecies of Agnes Nutter, seventeenth-century prophetess, are rapidly coming true.

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6 points
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