I think everyone who has been paying attention saw this coming. Now so-called “socialist” Hasan Piker is putting out CNN level liberal propaganda. Even western polling had to admit that Putin enjoyed an approval rating above 80% just prior to the election, but of course when you have demonized Russia to this degree you have to resort to reality denial to explain what you see.
We need to start using the term “red liberal” to describe these “leftist” political streamers and YouTubers who mimick the aesthetics and language of leftism while feeding into imperialist dogma and liberal assumptions about the world. Hasan also continues to deny the Donbass genocide that had been taking place since 2014 before Russia finally intervened, refuses to accept that Russia had legitimate reason to take action to stop NATO eastward expansion, and downplays the Nazi nature of the Kiev regime.
Now after he made fun of all the dumbass chuds who insisted in 2020 that the US election was stolen and made up all kinds of conspiracy theories to try and justify it, Hasan himself engages in the same kind of behavior when it comes to Russian elections. This is the kind of “socialist” who will act like they are not Democrat shills by superficially criticizing Genocide Joe yet continue to advocate that you vote for Democrats as the “lesser evil”.
It is good though that since 2022 all of these sheepdogs for liberal imperialism have been exposing themselves. Now we know where the lines are drawn. Once again Lenin’s words ring true:
“We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!”
I’m not sure we should die on that hill tbh
I have no way of verifying any claim about election fraud. All I know is that Russia has a capitalist mode of production, a liberal political system and that Putin is not a leftist, but he is also opportunistically anti-west which is good.
If you see a potential comrade hyperfocus on this election fraud thing, it’s better to open their perspective so they shift their attention on what matters rather than trying to get them to trust Russia more which is pointless at this level of propaganda
Edit : now specifically referring to Hasan - this guy is a massive libshit for endorsing western bourgeois dictatorships while dismissing their enemy-of-the-day bourgeois dictatorships
Elections in Russia, a bourgeois liberal democracy, are no more or less legitimate than elections in the West. If you believe that elections in the West are legitimate, which Hasan does as evidenced by the fact he spent years making fun of conservatives calling into question the 2020 election, then you are a hypocrite or a chauvinist if you claim that Russian elections are not.
For myself i don’t believe any elections under a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie are legitimate. Real democracy can only exist under the dictatorship of the proletariat. But i take issue with the double standard that is applied by Westerners when it comes to Russia
Damn I didn’t think his brainworms would be that big honestly, I had a form of sympathy for Hasan but now it’s gone. Who tf says they’re anti-capitalist and validate western elections??
In the end my reply was more about what you just said, that any bourgeois election is profoundly undemocratic
Thanks for proving my point that Hasan is a Democrat partisan. That is the same AOC who repeatedly voted alongside the entire Democrat party to give billions of dollars and heavy weapons to Ukrainian Nazis while denouncing the Palestinian resistance for striking back against the Zionist occupation and refusing to call what is happening in Gaza a genocide, yes?
We should oppose lies and misinformation wherever we find it, even when it is used against people we don’t like or support. You can’t combat misinformation by allowing it to continue to fester in other areas. It all needs to be dealt with, or none of it will. We can’t have “just a little western media brainworms, as a treat.”
We should oppose lies and misinformation wherever we find it, even when it is used against people we don’t like or support
Totally agree. I’ll just say that it’s important to avoid being disdainful especially when it’s ultimately quiet hard to prove this negative and since the precedents aren’t strong
On the other hand the conversation around this election can be very interesting if you take it as a starting point to ask more questions like “if the election was actually genuine do you trust the media would admit it?” / “The Russian system and economy have been written by the USA, what does it say about us?” / “All polls say he is actually popular, why would he commit fraud if he’s already won?” and most importantly “Why do you seem to think that democracy means everybody needs to be upset at the last politicians in place and vote for a different one given the chance?”
I agree. He is the enemy of my enemy, but other than that you can point to him doing things the west does, which helps libs sometimes open their eyes to how hypocritical they are being. Other than that i maintain that Putin is just another bourgeoisie dictator of yet another oligarchy.
Also hasan being a liberal? lol. That’s going a bit far imho.
I only support Russia as a foil to American power on an international level. Russia is not the USSR and Putin is no communist, in fact those absurd ideas are what liberals try to push. I don’t know if people who defend Putin in these ways are incapable of nuance or they’re just Russoboos, but defending Putin’s reactionary far-right nationalistic rule in modern Russia is NOT a leftist position. I’m sure the “democratic victory” in Russia is a farce, just like all liberal democracy is a farce.
But you can be anti-Nazis in Ukraine, against the extreme liberal transformation of Kiev, not think the invasion is good… but also understand that Russia was against a rock and a hard place and had to invade Ukraine to push back on NATO, think Russia is a crucial ally of the PRC and fundamental building block in BRICS+, and also abhor the racist, homophobic, transphobic and capitalist government of modern Moscow… and at the same time understand that Russia cannot be a Western style liberal (and Putin refuses to be communist) and they NEED something to unify the people. Black and white thinking goes against everything we believe in… nuance is what matters.
Modern Russia is like the USA during WW2, an ally of convenience, that’s it. Fuck Putin but also thank the universe for him.
I think this is pretty much the position of most people here. I largely agree with what you wrote, minus maybe calling it an “invasion” (i would say it was a justified intervention that should have and would have happened sooner under a communist government).
It’s an invasion because it’s a war between two capitalist states. If we’re talking about the USSR, it would be an intervention rooting out the miserable liberal/nazi advance in Ukraine.
I’m sure the “democratic victory” in Russia is a farce, just like all liberal democracy is a farce.
In that sense, yeah. But it’s certainly not inaccurate to say that these elections were also as legitimate as it gets (for a liberal democracy). Putin is genuinely massively popular, for understandable reasons particularly at the moment.
As for the invasion- no, I think it was a good thing. It should have happened sooner, but it’s better it happened as it did, than for Russia to have done nothing at all. And the severing of ties- between Russia and the west, particularly Europe- the diminishing of the arsenals of fascism, frankly, the death of many Nazis (and non-Nazis- but those who fought alongside them, admittedly) can only be considered a good thing. The weakening and humiliation of NATO is celebrated across the global south for a reason, and I fully join in with the sentiments- Russia, for all its faults and its compromised/hesitant circumstances that led it to this point- is doing something utterly amazing, beautiful, and liberating for the world, and I fully and utterly support its war efforts as such.
I wouldn’t even compare present events to that of WW2-era USA. Russia is not in a position to assume hegemonic status, militarily, economically, or otherwise, or inherit the post-colonial world, for instance- it is playing its part along with a host of nations (much of the global south, really) in ushering a new age of multipolarity. This difference alone could not be greater- Russia has many, many issues, but it is not imperialist, I also disagree with your notion that it is racist (at least, in regards to the Russian state and its influence), frankly, while it is liberal and prone to reactionaryism (particularly in regards to social issues) and we must not forget that, in regards to Russia’s reemerging influence and cooperation with other non-western nations- I can only call it as I see it- incredibly, utterly positive (and this is not unconditional approval- this is simply the fact of the matter, in regards to this country which is one of the greatest forces for anti-imperialism in the world at the moment and is tangibly eroding the imperialists’ bloc- however much it had sought to join them prior).
I agree, nuance is what matters. And a nuanced view should show that Russia is not, and will not, be comparable to the US in its role as a historical ally of convenience- it has its many issues to overcome, but its present actions, its present realities (no matter how its liberal elites may have sought otherwise) have grounded it with the global south and with the true international community. Russia is constrainted, geographically and otherwise; Russia is part of the emerging post-US hegemonic, post-dollar order; Russia is part of Afro-Eurasian and global integration and its circumstances have cemented its role as a force for this, rather than western imperialism. And- unlike the US, Russia in its present form inherited from the Soviets, as a civilization-state, clearly rejects the fascistic racial/ethnic/religious/etc supremacist tendencies of the west, whether in its domestic policy or foreign- unlike the historical WW2-era USA and Anglosphere, which basically collected Nazis and fascists of all stripes to craft their anti-communist bloc with; the difference could not be greater between modern Russia (which, while not socialist, cooperates with and is increasingly close to AES states like China) and the western “allies” in WW2.
That’s not to say Russia should be unconditionally supported, nor that it may never play a threat, of course- but I feel there is a world of difference, and in recognizing it- particularly in regards to the Ukraine war, we must not waver in our (critical) support until actually given proper reason to do so- and we must be especially cautious with drawing (sometimes fairly inaccurate) comparisons between Russia and the west, particularly the US- to avoid damaging leftist and general support for Russia in its present actions, which I would call undeniably for the betterment of the entire world. Russia may not have willingly gotten into this fight, and it may be in it for its own self-preservation, but this cause is undeniably just, and one that all of humanity- even the working classes of the west- have a stake in. It’s probably of little matter to debate the nuances here where most people get it, but in non-communist spaces, and/or in regards to those with a poor understanding of what is at stake, and what nuances exist, I think it’s important to be clear- for instance, that Putin’s mandate is as legitimate as it gets for any liberal democracy (ie. not very, if anyone’s asking- but infinitely more legitimate than that of any western leaders, and presently with a foundation of genuine, overwhelming popular support) and supporting Russia in its present actions in Ukraine is, I’d argue- the only proper leftist position, even if supporting Putin’s government in specific and the various social policies would clearly be not.
Overall I generally agree. Fuck Putin, but thank the universe for him- he didn’t want to be a hero (rather the opposite, he tried to join the west), and he is a deeply flawed one, but his actions are changing the world, overwhelmingly for the better all the same. But he’s definitely not a fascist, (not even comparable to the likes of Modi let alone the west) nor a racist, nor an imperialist (albeit that is more due to circumstance, perhaps), and I would call the invasion in Ukraine not only good, but an overwhelming triumph and boon for humanity- of course, it would have been better had it never had to happen in the first place, but as things turned out as they did, my only issue with the ongoing invasion is that it should have happened sooner. And modern Russia, flawed as it is, will not and cannot be the next USA- its circumstances do not allow it, and it is choosing an infinitely healthier, mutually beneficial path for itself and the rest of humanity as a result.
Russia seems to be the litmus test in America. If you have takes like:
- Today’s Russia is a direct consequence of American (and friends) destruction of the USSR
- Russian protectionist consolidation under Putin is the result of the plunder that ensued the dissolution of the USSR
- Russia has thus a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie because of the US
- American liberals do not care about Russia being totalitarian. They just hound them for it because they are a bourgeois dictatorship that happens to oppose the American bourgeoisie’s interests. That is why for every 1000 Putler alarmist in the West there is half a person worried about the BJP authoritarianism in India.
- America has never brought democracy is to any country including itself. It is high time Americans stop worrying about the presence or absence of democracy in an another country.
- There is no third position when it comes to Russia. If you join the liberals clamouring about “free and fair elections” then you are wittingly or unwittingly supporting American foreign policy.
You instantly get labeled a tankie/campist and lose all your engagement on social media.
Putin is clearly an autocrat and the Russia of today, I am sorry to say, is not the USSR and won’t become it either. Just because he is aligned against the west doesn’t mean we have to like him.
If this whole site has one big stupid obvious blind spot it’s the pathological need by many of you to go USA bad -> Russia no like USA -> Russia good.
Our posture is to critically support Russia while their interests align with multipolarity and anti-imperialism, we’ve never claimed that Russia is still the USSR or on the path to restore it that’s childish liberal propaganda.
It just happens that, due to the complex circunstamces, in this moment they ended up in the progressive side of history, like it or not.
Both things can be true.
Both of these nations are “liberal” “””democracies”””. Just because one is acting as a foil to the American imperial ambitions doesn’t mean that it still doesn’t have the same glaring faults.
I agree that both can be true, but i don’t see what the usefulness is of stretching the traditional definition of autocrat so far that it includes nominally elected leaders in a liberal bourgeois democracy with separation of powers and a parliament. We already have another term to describe that state of affairs and it’s dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. That is a more accurate description than autocracy for what Russia and that US are.
Russia has many but not all of the glaring faults that the US does. We should not fall back on false equivalencies just because two countries share similar traits in some aspects. It would be too much to get into here but in certain respects the way that Russia’s state and economy operate is quite different from how things are done in the West, and so is the role that they play in the geopolitical arena. They are not mirror images of each other.
Russia’s system may have been put into place and shaped by the Americans but it has since undergone changes and development that have diverged it from that path.
Who is killing the nazis / NATO imperialists in europe? Certainly not the majority of western leftists.
Whatever we think of Russia, they are helping to do undo the primary contradiction in the world today, imperialism, ie the inequality between rich and poor nations, by harming / draining the military and financial resources of those keeping that system of inequality in place.
Could both these positions not be true at once? Neither these statements seem to be at odds with each other.
This point does not get emphasized enough. Is there any other country or force right now that is killing as many Nazis and NATO “mercenaries” as Russia? Is anyone else depleting NATO arsenals and so successfully exposing them as a paper tiger? Has anyone else done so much reputational damage to the US as this unbeatable force that everyone was supposed to be terrified of and to the image of NATO equipment as some kind of superweapons? Is it a coincidence that we have seen the Palestinian resistance take the fight back to the occupier, the Yemenis openly challenge the entire collective West’s ability to protect its shipping lanes and win, or entire African nations evict their western neo-colonial garrisons just after Russia struck a massive blow against NATO and its Nazi proxies in Ukraine? We all love and appreciate China and what it has done for the Chinese people and the world, for showing that socialism can and does bring a better life even in this modern era, but it’s not China that has dared to take direct military action against the western imperialist hegemony, it’s Russia.
do not follow internet personalities, the internet is basically TV 2; you wouldnt trust people on the capitalist controlled television, you shouldnt trust people on capitalist controlled websites.
