I’ve seen some very heated debates by leftists on both sides of the argument that have left me very confused.

19 points
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Marrying an SW*, AMA I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

*for doxxing reasons I will confirm that they are not an escort, but I will not specify what they do in a public post.

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3 points

Do they think prostitution is different from other forms of sex work?

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They respect that it is much different than doing something that, while sexy, involves no touching or full on nudity. Ill ask for further comment when im home later.

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Is there ever a time where you go “hehe, hell yeah, genitals 😎” or is it mostly a sober subject?

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We make jokes, we have fun

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4 points
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:downbear:

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1 point

Do you dispute any particular point I have made? Did I phrase anything poorly?

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8 points

We aren’t capable here of empathizing with sex workers or their clients With all due respect, you are projecting your own issues onto the entire website here.

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2 points

You see how these threads go. I am obviously right on this. This isn’t my issue, I’ve been in situations, but you can’t deny that is how these threads play out.

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After the revolution™️ you will want sex workers for therapeutic reasons

Lol no one’s gonna do this

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4 points
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In Germany they have this. Sex workers that have to go to school and get extra certification to work with disabled adults in a therapeutic setting. It is actually a very respected an valuable service and does a great deal for improving thr quality of life and care the people receive. Other countries also, but theirs was the most well regulated program last I looked any of this stuff up.

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Sex work is work that involves sex or sex-adjacent activities.

A lot of westerners get upset when non-westerners don’t view it positively, as if western countries aren’t the only ones comfortable enough to choose their professions a lot of the time. That’s not to say every sex worker in the west chose their profession or is happy, or that every sex worker in the global south is trafficked and miserable, but when you compare the two, it’s likely that the westerner is comfortable in every way. Many countries outside of the west have been colonized and have seen sexual violence on their populations by foreigners, and that continues today, so that’s the basis of their judgement. If you don’t know the history of a country, you should keep your mouth shut before blabbing on about changes in policies for a place you don’t live in.

There are many socialists today who think ALL sex work will be abolished if socialism were to be achieved. I can see jobs like prostitution being abolished or become unpopular because there is no incentive to do that work - obviously some people simply like sex and will find a way to get their rocks off, and so called “sex therapy” is such a niche career that no one talks about it. A lot of people, mainly women, don’t want to be in a situation where they’ll be killed or beaten with a client. Maybe a rating system and prostitution being legalized will fix it, but I don’t know. Maybe look at Amsterdam’s policies and see if the results are good and can be expanded under a socialist society. But again, there won’t be much of an incentive to do it. But I don’t believe complete equality will ever achieved, so there will be people who fall through the cracks regardless of the society they live in, so just like how they’ll smoke the opium of the masses when they’re desperate, they’ll resort to whatever job is available to survive. Treating them like horrid criminal demons instead of incorporating them into your society won’t do anyone any good.

But sex work isn’t just fucking. For example, porn and stripping are just essentially forms of entertainment. People will still do that, but I imagine studios or bar will be more worker oriented or performers will be independent. People are delusional if you think that stuff will disappear. Unlike prostitution, porn can be done privately, and stripping usually doesn’t allow touching, so there are more incentives to do those things even if your needs are met under socialism.

It’s weird that people view sex work as some unique evil in this world. Sure, sex work causes alienation. But why does that bother you when you’re priaising McDonald’s and Starbucks workers for unionizing? They literally sell poison to people. And you likely contribute the the slaughter of children in the global south by making money for your company that buys stocks in Lockheed Martin. What I’m saying is that all these jobs suck whether you like them or not. To me, there is no difference between a poor person who becomes becomes a software developer and makes $100k and a poor person who becomes an independent sex worker who makes $100k. They will all cause suffering to someone and it’s best to try to support workers until we find a new path forward. Even if you think sex work is bad, it’s dumb to fixate on it. Besides, if you’re a third worldist then you should celebrate because it means westoids are becoming more and more miserable and lonely.

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6 points

As far as I understand the term sex work it is a wide umbrella term for all kinds of labour involving sexual gratification but I’m also aware that it is often used to speak of prostitution.

I will not claim to know a whole lot about it but I do think it would be a good idea to recognize that it covers many different types of labour, even when you’re just talking about prostitution. Obviously, there is an enormous difference between the trafficking victim and the woman who actively chooses to become an independent sex worker because she likes the money and prefers it over a regular job.

There is coercion involved as with all labour under capitalism but the materialist thing to do is to ask what the alternative is. As long as capitalism is in place, the alternative to coercive sex work is not no coercion, the alternative is coercive non-sexual work.

I think the best way to bring material improvements to sex workers is to build a society that doesn’t make people so desperate that they will subject themselves to rape just to survive. I also think sex workers should have the same protections afforded to other workers by the law, like pensions, vacations, unemployment benefits, workplace safety etc.

I don’t think bans and cops are the right way forward. They might be effective in scaring away the sex workers who have tolerable alternatives but the most vulnerable who doesn’t have an alternative will become even more vulnerable as they will have to hide from authorities.

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1 point

That is a valid point. I guess the ultimate question is if sex done because of capitalism is different from other work under capitalism, because there is a term for coercive sex (rape) which isn’t there for other coercive labor. If sex work (the kind we’re talking about) is rape then is it worse than other proletarian work. It’s complicated.

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