How do you do it?
I stopped participating in a group chat with some long-time friends about a year ago, mostly due in part to the exhausting conversations over politics. Ironically, after Trump was shot, the group decided to silo the conversations into two groups, one for non-politics, and one for politics, and pinged me. We’re that kind of group where we go long periods of time not seeing each other in person due to life and kids, but it was nice to have them reach out.
But oh, that politics channel has not changed. Meanwhile, my worldview has shifted dramatically to the left of theirs (and beyond, really). The spectrum is:
- Center Leaning Republican (a Rogan, Pool, Peterson enjoyer),
- A Center leaning Dem
- A Vote Blue Democrat (they are also the only queer person in our group)
- A 3rd Party guy (basically a libertarian but refuses to adopt a label, and doesn’t vote, but also a Peterson enjoyer, rabid anticommunist, they always know a guy, or have a family member, you know what I mean).
- All white, all male
Something interesting happened when I returned, though. The topic that started this isn’t relevant, but it prompted the Center Dem friend to ask me where I get my views from. I sat on that question for an evening and then just wrote out a summary of the Marxist-Leninists view on capitalism and imperialism, without ever using “capitalism” or “imperialism”, without referencing Marx or Lenin.
It was long, but, his response was, basically, “Ok, that makes a lot of sense, actually.” I then told him that Marx and Lenin would be happy to know you agree because that’s their analysis in my own words, as I understand it.
Usually after bringing up someone like Marx, I’ll get dunked on with a barrage of anticommunist brainrot, but that didn’t happen this time.
So it got me thinking about the title of this post. How do you talk to your lib friends about their distorted world view?
Currently on hiatus because “you are participating in genocide!” Doesn’t seem to get through to the no matter how i phrase it and i keep having panic attacks from realizing that.
I try to simplify it for them. “Killing people to steal their homes and land is wrong, and I’m not budging on that.”
It doesn’t work, but I don’t get high blood pressure trying to think of other things to say. And now I just don’t talk to my liberal friends. I don’t have time to deal with people who think killing people and stealing their homes and land is okay.
I guess I don’t, or rather I used to, and then our conversations became so consistently exhausting for both of us that without really trying to we just stopped having them. Like a call would start out with some fun chit chat but then inevitably we would get to talking about colonialism or whatever and I would realize they were a horrific racist (aka normie liberal). Thankfully politics are an easy base on which to build adult friendships, since past age 30 they become good proxies for your worldview and values in general. So going to irl political events and then continuing to hang with people I get along with has been a surprising well of friendship as I age.
Also well-off white people past age 30 are basically a lost cause. Every single material incentive pushes them to have right wing views.
So going to irl political events and then continuing to hang with people I get along with has been a surprising well of friendship as I age.
God, me and my SO need to find the time to do this. Having kids, though, makes that hard for sure.
Don’t expect wonders overnight either. If you don’t have any existing connections to local leftist groups your only real entrypoint is the DSA. Unfortunately in my experience the DSA kind of sucks in this regard. In my area it’s just a lot of awkward young dudes. However, it gets your name and face out there. As you consistently show up to meetings and events people will recognize you and you will recognize them. DSA often co-organizes events with other groups. You’ll meet people from those groups. Sometimes you might get an invite to a training or orientation with other groups. There are a lot of cool people to be found. In the US it then diverges between the PSL, various trot orgs, and a loose federation of small anarchist-y groups. There are some people in the anarchist orgs that have typical Epic Western Anarchist beliefs and hate the PSL, China, etc. but 90% of people don’t really care. If you’re just looking for people at a social level and aren’t like terribly serious about joining a disciplined communist org that is probably a good space to angle into.
I generally don’t use a frontal approach instead trying to get them to partake in radical media. Anything by Boots Riley( The Coup, Sorry to Bother You, I’m a Virgo), Damnation (which is no longer on netflix), and a bunch of other stuff. It often lays the groundwork for Yellow Parenti, and other docs. It’s a long process.
I should really watch Andor. Also, I’ve seen “Sorry to bother you”, I’ll look into the other stuff Boots Riley has done. Man, I really need to pull the trigger on a home NAS, so I can start downloading and archiving my own media again.
I have a jellyfin/arr setup and it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. Highly recommend. Looking into using it for IPTV as well so we can get rid of our cable boxes.
I need to put this on my list this year. Just gotta save up the money. I have a bunch of nice 2TB HD just looking for a home.
Start from class.
The first question to ask yourself is who here struggles the most. Who has it in their interests the most to align leftwards? That person is going to find more in what you have to say than the others provided you’re tailoring your message around what actually personally affects them and make sure you challenge them to consider what will actually tangibly improve their life.
The second question to ask yourself is who here is the the most moralist. Moralisation is not as strong as class but for a few people it will work or at least produce sympathisers.
Other than these I would suggest not wasting your time trying to change the political positions of people whose class interests don’t align with the left. It becomes an exercise in futility and your time is better spent elsewhere. Instead, simply try to make them be kinder.
Something interesting happened when I returned, though. The topic that started this isn’t relevant, but it prompted the Center Dem friend to ask me where I get my views from. I sat on that question for an evening and then just wrote out a summary of the Marxist-Leninists view on capitalism and imperialism, without ever using “capitalism” or “imperialism”, without referencing Marx or Lenin.
It was long, but, his response was, basically, “Ok, that makes a lot of sense, actually.” I then told him that Marx and Lenin would be happy to know you agree because that’s their analysis in my own words, as I understand it.
Usually after bringing up someone like Marx, I’ll get dunked on with a barrage of anticommunist brainrot, but that didn’t happen this time.
This is a teaching reaction. A positive reaction from people that actually like to learn new things. You can work with this.
- Teach what capitalism is
- Give examples of capital
- Teach class to people
- Explain the relationship between bourgeoisie and proletariat using example. I like workplace followed by landlords.
This equips people to understand our world and system and is the necessary springboard into considering alternatives.
This is a teaching reaction. A positive reaction from people that actually like to learn new things. You can work with this.
Yeah, he seems like someone who keeps an open mind about stuff like this.
One thing I’m trying to figure out is, how do I talk about “libs” without using the word “lib”? In this setting, it is the pejorative “lib” in the classical American Political Conservative sense, and sometimes “Liberal” in the American Political Progressive sense. Using Neoliberal, I feel would fly over their heads.
I use terms like “average American voter”, “mainstream views” or something similar. Like you mention I have found pretty much anyone can agree with the concepts of anticapitalism and communist ideals, so long as you avoid any terms that have been completely distorted. Instead of bourgeoisie you can say the rich elite, billionaires, political class or whatever. I think there is a lot more agreement between sections of the proletariat than it would appear at first, they just have their knee-jerk responses to buzzwords.
I use Neolib and it works great I think. If you google it the results talk about Reagan and Thatcher a lot which drives home that it isn’t what a usian republican means when they say “liberal”.
