Finally, another web engine is being developed to compete with Chromium and Firefox (Gecko), and they’re also working on a browser that will use it.

Here’s the maintainer talking about the current state of the project, and a demo of the current functionality

61 points

The devs have some problematic views, mainly transphobic and misogynistic.

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32 points
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Is this because they used “he” instead of “they” in the build instructions? … They changed that and acknowledged the mistake. Surely that’s enough. It’s the fucking build instructions. I think we can probably find it in our hearts to forgive them.

[edit] Just in case people think I’m joking. I’m not. As far as I’m aware, the critical incident that that has resulted in people calling Ladybird devs anti-trans is that they wrote ‘he’ instead of ‘they’ in the build instructions. That’s what caused the original outrage. And as far as I’m aware, there have been no other incidents. But please, if there is something of substance that I’m not aware of, post about it here.

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14 points

That’s literally it. People are getting angry over unsubstantiated information for 0 reason

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25 points

Also, the use of AI-generated images on their website.

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12 points
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So?

For many small project is AI/copied images or no images at all.

When you do not have money you are not hiring a 2000€/month artist to do imagery for your website. You go online to copy something or nowadays you can use AI to wrap it up. It’s a tool at people’s disposition like any other.

And before anyone comes talking about copyright laws… shall I present them my 10 TB hard drive of pirated media? Human culture is to be shared, not gatekeeped.

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11 points

What’s wrong with that?

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23 points
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For one, AI datasets often break copyright law, frequently appropriating from artists. Executives are also trying to use it to eliminate the jobs of artists, and I feel it’s wrong to try and obsolete something people love doing.

In addition, they take a lot of power, not helping in the way of the needed changes to follow climate goals.

Clarification: Copyright laws can be annoying, and I don’t always agree with them. However, it also protects smaller artists. I think there are many cases where piracy is totally fine, though, like if a company vaults an animated streaming show and gets rid of all other ways to watch it.

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people who add AI features to shit like this are always the dumbest fucking people alive

you’re not some big tech company actually developing an AI assistant for your browser or OS it’s just a fake feature every time lol

if they’re already trying to pass off AI imagery as proof their project is robust, they will do the same with copypasted AI features every time

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16 points

Meh, that just killed my interest in the project. I was really looking forward to their first release. Now I don’t care anymore.

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11 points

Such accusations should really be followed by a source.

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7 points
13 points
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Jumping to transphobic and misogynistic for not wanting to use inclusive language in some repo documentation is a big jump. He didn’t ever dead named anyone or refuse to use some person preferred pronoums. Its just not wanting to use inclusive language on documentation. Most, if not all, documentation I have ever read in my life don’t use the newest trend of inclusive language.

By they way accusations were written it seemed like devs were actually exposing hate speech or something like that.

Let’s not be like that, ok? At least I choose not be like that. You can destroy people lives with such accusations over basically nothing, be better.

I know that we are near Americans elections as it always makes the whole internet jumping, and throwing knives to find “the enemy”. But it could be as simple as inclusive language might be confusing for non english speakers, or might the trend change over time and it’s just a bother to keep updating with the lastest trend. Do you know how many versions of inclusive language did we have in my language? We started using ell@s, then ellxs, then ellos y ellas, then elles, then ellos, ellas y elles. It’s too volatile and little to be that mad over it. Specially when there’s people out there who truly hate anyone who is not a cis str male and is doing true hate speech over that.

If there’s more evidence of devs being evil, I will aknowledge it. But for such a little inconsequential thing (again it’s not even being against someone chosen pronoums, it’s just general documentation) I refuse to spread hate towards other human being.

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9 points

So do you have any evidence for this instead of just dropping it with no source?

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7 points

It almost like a bot is posting this sentence every time SerenityOS is mentioned.

Using “he” insted of “they” is not enough to call someone transphobic or misogynistic. It’s like you become fascist and are targeting people for one different opinion. Which is not even true.

There are real problems transgender people are having, ladybird browser must be low on that priority.

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3 points
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There are real problems transgender people are having, ladybird browser must be low on that priority.

Are you trying to tell me that Ladybird inadvertently referring to a computer process ‘he’ instead of ‘it’ is not a high priority problem for transgender people? What could possibly be worse? :p

(But seriously though. I find it really weird that people are still upset at Ladybird about this. It makes me wonder if there’s some social manipulation going on. Like, is anyone actually upset about this, or is it just an excuse to attack the devs?)

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Sauce?

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18 points

From last time. TL;DR real weird vibes. This is a PR where you say “oops, that makes sense”, click merge, and go on living your life. Not whatever this ended up being.

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Upgrading to gender neutral language is important.

Having a reflex to avoid politics, especially when you live in an environment where concepts like gender aren’t discussed, is understandable. It’s an attempt to do no harm that doesn’t have the expected impact. It still causes harm because simple problems like gendered language are treated with an allergic response. This is what happens when conservatives hyper-sensitize well-meaning people on social topics. Considering the world we live in, you can’t expect everyone to know how to flawlessly navigate these issues on the first try.

Their policy of “no politics” was misguided, but understandable. Everything is political. It was fashionable for decades to pretend otherwise. Many people grow up in an environment that ignores social topics. They need to be accepted into spaces where social topics are discussed, not immediately ostracized for not knowing the rules to a game they are new to.

I would like them to neutralize gendered assumptions in their documentation and learn from the experience, but that can only happen if they aren’t ostracized from the community. I want to give them a chance to learn and improve to disrupt Google’s unhealthy monopoly in the browser space.

The PR in question is also in error. It claims that the documentation assumed the gender of the user or the developer. A close reading of the requested commit reveals that the documentation instead assumes the gender of an example user named “anon” whose permissions are being altered. The documentation’s use of gender is in using a male as an example user needing their privileges deescalated. Still problematic, of course: not only men need their privilege checked from time to time.

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11 points

It’s a one-time error the maintainer made 3 years ago (at a time when much of the US-influenced west was going crazy with polarization over the use of pronouns), not a consistent behavior of intolerance as one would expect given the level of hostility towards the project seen here. I personally find it weirder to hold such a long-standing grudge for a one-off error, and over a project one is not even personally involved with.

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2 points

Like i said earlier, it was changed to they later, to the lead dev, in german they/them is a neopronoun, and “he” is gender neutral is those situations, i assume he thought it was the same in english

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1 point

“real wierd vibes” is very far from “transphobia”.

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7 points
Removed by mod
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i don’t even want to click your link because it says “unhinged dishonest activists”. i have literally only ever heard the worst people with the worst opinions ever say shit like that.

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13 points

So you agree with the idea that submitting a “minor nitpick” PR suggesting that the software doesn’t refer to all users as male is “personal politics” and deserves an angry response for even suggesting it?

You sure do sound like someone who would agree with Lunduke…

Being a woman or being transgender isn’t “political”. Vocally opposing inclusiveness is asshole behavior.

Not even mad that he’s not accepting a low-effort PR. It’s trivializing people’s existence as “political” that makes him shitty.

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5 points

It was changed to they later, to the lead dev, in german they/them is a neopronoun, and “he” is gender neutral is those situations, i assume he thought it was the same in english

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I dunno friend, after reading a bunch of comments here it sounds like this may not be true, please edit this to include the context or a source to the claim

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4 points

Oh gosh here we go again, as in Braves case.

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2 points

Making a donation to a campaign that the majority of Californians voted for is unforgivable.

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3 points

I couldnt really care less about my chefs personal view as long as the meal is ok.

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2 points
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Then it’s good you won’t touch it. Ain’t it?

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1 point

Don’t put all all Ladybird devs in the same basket, there’s currently more than 1000 contributors.

Ok, Andreas Kling said some untasteful things a few years ago when it was mostly his project, but I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the whole project for this reason now.

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60 points

Hot take: Since it’s a BSD licensed browser at some point in the future, there’s going to be a company that funds it brings it to mainstream with their flavor, and then will over throw chromium in time. Replace an ‘evil’ with another ‘evil’.

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10 points

Yeah not a good licence at all for an independent browser. Idk if Servo MPL is a good license either. Do you know of any web browser that is GPL?

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6 points

WebKit/Blink are mostly LGPL.

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4 points

Definitely not what you want, but Gnome web (Epiphany) is GPLv3 according to flathub.

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3 points

Its better than a BSD style license which is what I was mainly critiquing

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4 points

Luckily Gecko still exists. And who knows, maybe Servo will make it one day (but the odds are stacked against both them and Ladybird anyway).

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2 points

I feel you… Fingers crossed dude. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride

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37 points

Servo hype

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18 points

There was a gpl licensed browser engine someone by hobby is writing from scratch. I think theese companies supporting ladybird just do so because of license that they can proprietarify(like chromium)

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15 points

How is it progressing so fast compared to Servo? Isn’t Servo being developed for a longer time?

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1 point

Tom Servo?

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