Spoke to a family member today. Talked about how I’m gonna write a student thesis on Wu Zetian, the only female emperor of China. Was promptly met with “but why not write about women like Margaret Thatcher? So many more references and much more recent!”

Cue me asking why I should study a known European figure rather than somebody more unknown (and more interesting imo) overseas? Family member goes on to tell me how “easy it was for medieval women overseas to gain power, they just had to marry their emperor husband!”, and how European history is so much more interesting and tragic and worth analysing because everything is so complex in Europe compared to those “primitive cultures.” Family member then jumps to how Europeans have invented EVERYTHING and how everybody else copies us (clothes, music, science) and Europe is the sole inventor of everything apparently. I get up and leave.

Apologies for the rant. Do y’all have any supporting words or advice on how to speak to these individuals? I thought I could post this here because I appreciate y’all’s anti-colonialist attitude, but do feel free to remove if it’s appropriate.

4 points

Thank you hexbearians for all your replies and support. Ive read every comment and will respond when I have time but know that I appreciate y’all’s take on this

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i can excuse the western chauvanism/rascism. But I draw the line at suggesting anyone study Margaret Thatcher

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China was inventing paper, printing press, gunpowder, public exam system for government officials, straps that go across horse’s chest instead of their neck so you can attach a plow without choking them (europe would literally never figure this out until cars were invented), systematized formal philosophy, etc. while Europe was fucking sheep and living in mud and grass huts and dumping their shit into the street and ransacking more civilized people like the romans and ottomans. europeans are so warlike and barbaric they could not even stop from pillaging and enslaving each other in viking raids. Europe was a primitive literally shit covered backwater until the industrial revolution made textile production less lucrative for the ottomans. the first european king charlemagne was an illiterate warlord who could not even spell his own name. europeans literally did not believe in washing their hands, that was ‘moorish heathenry’ not for christians. european royalty would use dogs to lick their hands after meals, peasants would simply go filthy. europeans would wear flowers to cover the smell of shit and sweat and piss. europeans thought of chastity as a virtue, and in some communities in europe it was considered improper for a woman to ever bathe, to preserve her ‘chastity’ and ensure she was never sexually attractive to men. european vikings would wash their face and blow their nose in the morning, in/into a single tub of water, passed around one after the other, in order of seniority, without changing the water, much to the chagrin of Islamic travellers chronicling their disgusting hygiene. europeans did not have divorce, in many cases of legal marital dispute the man and woman were forced into marital duels with both stitched into leather suits (bearing a cross so you know its holy) and the man waist-deep in a pit with a club, the woman free to move and armed with a stone wrapped in her wedding veil (see below).

this family member is nothing short of an ignorant racist fool, a history channel watcher who, via dunning-kruger, thinks they are well informed and educated on history.

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I guess try to see if they’re actually responsive to any counter-claims before you start getting harsh with them if you’re gunna’ try to argue with them.

They sound totally fucked though. I would probably tell them to shut up or avoid them entirely at this point. A lot of people are only going to listen to you if you have whatever social aspects they deem respectable. I don’t have those so I’m coming at this from the epic trolls’ perspective.

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18 points
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Well, everyone else has covered good serious answers so I’ll give you less serious ones that would still be really fun to do. It is good and noble to antagonize your racist relatives. Also, “Shut the fuck up, you don’t know jack shit and have lost your right to talk” is a fun thing to say to people, gets them really upset. Why should you treat someone spewing colonialist fascist propaganda with respect? Hurt their feelings. Make them ashamed.

  1. That person’s analysis is racist as hell, just call it what it is to their face.

  2. It’s also categorically false. By how our sick societies typically measure “civilization” (sidenote it’s a pretty fucked up way that accepts colonialist industrialist racist assumptions as fact) China was far more civilized and advanced than Europe. China had vast empires while Europe was still in the so-called “Dark Ages”. Not that Empire is good but you see my point.

  3. Unrelated but have you read Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao? It’s at like the intersection of sci fi and fantasy and is directly inspired by Wu Zetian. I also think it’s a book all leftists should love because it’s very much a revolutionary story that rejects every bullshit defanging and subversion that Western revolutionary stories put in to sabotage revolution (For more on those sabotaging tropes: https://redsails.org/the-swerve). If you haven’t read it I cannot recommend it enough. It’s so damn good.

  4. You can tell them you have a policy of not writing about people who are destined for Hell, like Margaret Thatcher.

  5. You can tell them that you would rather write about someone cool like an empress rather than someone pathetic who only ever rose to the ranks of Prime Minister. If Margaret Thatcher had been half the woman with half the ambition of Empress Wu Zetian, she would have done a coup d’etat the queen of England, ripped the crown off her corpse, and reinstated absolute monarchy in England. Instead she meekly settled for Prime Minister. Pathetic.

  6. I know I shouldn’t recommend but reddit’s /r/AskHistorians is full of threads about how Europe was this dark backwater with no civilization while all over the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and in the Americas, vast advanced civilizations fluorished and did great things. If you wanted to be petty you could look for those, compile the best examples, and send them to this family member, because they sound like they really need to learn that West is not best, it’s the worst and is the latecomer to the stage of global civilizations.

  7. You could tell them you think you’ll get a better grade writing a respectful paper about what a bad bitch girlboss Wu Zetian was than if you write a long diatribe of an essay outlining every single way that Maggie Thatcher was a fetid steaming pile of shit.

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2 points

You can tell them that you would rather write about someone cool like an empress rather than someone pathetic who only ever rose to the ranks of Prime Minister. If Margaret Thatcher had been half the woman with half the ambition of Empress Wu Zetian, she would have done a coup d’etat the queen of England, ripped the crown off her corpse, and reinstated absolute monarchy in England. Instead she meekly settled for Prime Minister. Pathetic.

I lol’d at this, especially keeping in mind that this family member of mine thought Margaret Thatcher was so iconic to have risen to power in a patriarchal world (like Wu didn’t do the exact same thing).

Unrelated but have you read Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao? It’s at like the intersection of sci fi and fantasy and is directly inspired by Wu Zetian. I also think it’s a book all leftists should love because it’s very much a revolutionary story that rejects every bullshit defanging and subversion that Western revolutionary stories put in to sabotage revolution (For more on those sabotaging tropes: https://redsails.org/the-swerve). If you haven’t read it I cannot recommend it enough. It’s so damn good.

My friend actually introduced this book to me after I told her I’d be studying Wu! Strongly considering reading it now that you vouch for it, too.

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