Class should be first, but not the only thing.

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30 points
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9 points
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There are strong and persuasive arguments that state violence and patriarchy respectively preceded class historically, and that inclines me to think that class isn’t neccessary the anchor a lot of old school marxists make it out to be.

Edit for clarity: class is one of the most important axis of struggle, and cannot be abandoned. I’m saying that the struggle against patriarchy and state violence need to take equal precedence.

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34 points
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I would argue that the complete avoidance of class among progressives during the 2010s led straight to the rising fascism we see today.

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33 points
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5 points

What does that have to do with what I said?

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4 points

Defining gender was the original division of labor, the idea that women should rear children and thus reproduce the social relations in a primitive society is the original class divide. Engels describes this well in the Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State.

These concepts aren’t distinct struggles. Class is the base and gender is a superstructure of that base. Struggling against gender based oppression is also struggling against the way capitalism exploits gender to reproduce class relations.

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Patriarchy perhaps, but I’m not sure you can even have a state without class division, let alone state violence.

Nevertheless, even if racism etc are superstructure we still need to fucking fight it.

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12 points

There’s a hypothesis for the beginning of the state that goes as follows:

Sedentary communities are often surrounded by nomadic raiders sustain themselves in part off the products made by the sedentists.

But, raiding too often is unsustainable, so they’d keep track of who they’d raided, and the collections became more routine. For various reasons, the nomadic raiders would settle down as a ruling class.

So in this account, the state doesn’t emerge to manage class contradictions, but as a form of class rule.

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47 points

i grew up poor and did landscaping when I was younger. one day I was at this rich dude’s house and heard him talking with his other shithead friends about women in a misogynist way and it immediately pushed me to be the opposite of those men. a lot of my dude friends, gay or straight, but mostly upper-middle class, have awful views regarding women. I’ve even gotten in fights with guys because I didn’t like how they talked about women lol. idk it just bothers me how men can recognize class but refuse to recognize the patriarchy

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6 points

yeah i mean i think if my dad played a larger role in my development i probably would’ve ended up as like a stupidpol freak or a libertarian. both of my parents are sort of “anti-establiahment” and my dad voted for Nader. but he also has a weird misogynist streak

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43 points
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32 points

Sankara also has some cool points around this.

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20 points

stupidpollers seething

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40 points

Death to brocialism, death to Stupidpol, death to reductionism, death to manarcho-brollectivism

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22 points

:red-fist:

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to the people downvoting this, show yourselves cowards :stalin-shining:

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