Title says it all.

I am a huge 40k fan and I know how problematic 40k is with its portrayal of endless war and facism. Comrade @relay@lemmygrad.ml has put it best:

Maybe all of the 40k factions are fascist and that universe’s lore has no dialectic of class struggle and is to violent to be realistic, thus serves as part of the superstructure for fascism.

it reinforces the idea that the conflict between tribes will always supercede the conflict between classes. It’s wrong on so many levels.

And yet I can’t hate it. I have a hard time taking 40k serious and seeing it as more than a silly boardgame with cool minis and (deliciously) stupid lore.

Same with B99. I know that the show is horrid copacanda, I know that shows like this prevent people from seeing pigs as the pigs they are because “funny cop show portraits them as silly and relatable.” But I still like the show a lot. I like the characters and just pretend that it plays in a parallel universe were cops aren’t the worst.

I just sort of suppress any critical thoughts and take those things at face value without thinking about what they imply. It’s just very hard to find alternatives.

So yeah I feel terrible for finding enjoyment in this stuff even though I know I shouldn’t. Can anyone relate or do you perhaps have similar feelings towards other franchises?

27 points

If you can enjoy it, enjoy it. No entertainment is completely free of issues and problems. It is frustrating watching something with friends and they clearly don’t examine the deeper themes whatsoever (“It’s just a fun superhero movie, there’s nothing deeper about it, you overanalyse everything!”)

But if you’re just enjoying something on its own, especially something with a huge variety of writers coming at the franchise with wildly different interpretations like 40k, there’s nothing wrong with that.

I’ve touched on this before, but as socialists, we need to be able to reach the masses. The masses aren’t interested in theory, or why their favourite cop show is problematic, they just want fun distractions. You have to ease people into that stuff, and you start by being a regular person who can enjoy things rather than an overly uptight “stop having fun guys” kind of person.

*Insert that Ultra-Maoist copypasta here. *

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5 points

It is frustrating watching something with friends and they clearly don’t examine the deeper themes whatsoever (“It’s just a fun superhero movie, there’s nothing deeper about it, you overanalyse everything!”)

I pretty much never examine the deeper themes of whatever I’m watching

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6 points

I’m a professional writer, cursed to analyse the dialogue and plot in everything I watch. I can’t just “switch brain off, enjoy” at all anymore.

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25 points

酒肉穿肠过,佛祖心中留 Wine and meat pass through the intestines, but the Buddha stays in your heart. As long as your faith is firm, you don’t have to feel guilty.

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4 points

This is the way to be

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3 points

Was not expecting 济公 here along with the Marxists xD

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21 points

First and I think only time I’ve argued with comrades here was over 40k.

I think at the end of the day any given 40k fan can be someone who’s aware of the issues with 40k but still enjoys it (for so many possible reasons, but growing up with it being the focus of your social circles is a big one I think), or they could be someone who enjoys the fascist fantasy, or they could be completely politically ignorant and unaware of how much it’s shaping their worldview.

There’s too many variables. There’s a vast diversity of liberal media out there, an even bigger variety of people consuming it, and every combination thereof should be judged on its own merits.

I used to love Age of Sail Royal Navy/British Empire stuff. I read all the Patrick O’Brien books (Master and Commander etc), Hornblower, and tangentially Bernard Cornwell’s Sharpe books. I can’t read any of it anymore without it making my skin crawl, but I can remember how much I loved those stories. I’ll still get goose bumps listening to the Sharpe theme, but I’d rather pull my brains out through my nose than defend the actions of the British Empire. I don’t think there’s a contradiction there. It’s just the emotional vestiges of the growth and change we go through as humans. I feel a little sadness and nostalgia when I see the colonial Hong Kong flag I grew up under burning, but I’ll also be the one that set it on fire.

And Star Trek. I don’t doubt for a second that Gene Rodenberry died a closet communist. The shows themselves are a mess ideologically, with writers and showrunners of different ideologies all throwing their ideas into the mix of what the Federation is and how a stateless, moneyless society that has a science-exploration-diplomacy space navy with a military rank system actually works under the hood. But then because of that ambiguity Star Trek becomes what you make of it. I can see the old me, who enjoyed it as a space military thing, getting pissed off about the recent musical episode while the current me thought it was genius.

At the end of the day what happens between you and liberal (any) media is unique to you, and only you can judge the effect it’s having on you. Where we have to be careful, though, is how we conspicuously consume and talk about media around other people, because our actions and words affect how they interact with the same.

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3 points

consuming yummy media in my tumtum

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4 points

Thanks for the TLDR summary ❤

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19 points

After listening to and reading Parenti, I couldn’t watch any/liberal entertainment media at all. It wasn’t a feeling of guilt put undiluted anger. Books, shows, graphic novels. Everything.

Thankfully that feeling relented. Now I can enjoy most fiction (written, audio, or audio-visual). I’m a little bit more discerning than I was. But I can even enjoy the stuff that’s right on the nose because it’s so ridiculous.

So long as you’re treating 40k as entertainment rather than a guide to life, it’s fine, I think. You can always critique it while you’re engaging with it. Just know that it could ruin it for you for a while, until you ‘re-adjust’ to enjoying things that you are critical about.

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19 points
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21 points

“The Battle at Lake Changjin” is based on real battles where Korean and Chinese communists killed American invaders. Good stuff.

I love the way they portray the US military and especially McArthur in this film. And I love showing it to liberal friends who think they see through the bias of the Western stuff they watch, and think the Western stuff is just a little biased but mostly accurate.

History seems to agree with the Chinese portrayal of McArthur. He was a vile excuse for a human.

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16 points
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History seems to agree with the Chinese portrayal of McArthur

Even US history classes can’t manage to paint him as a decent person

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15 points

War films from Russia and China actually celebrate real war heroes defeating fascism.

Just be careful with the Russian war movies after 1985. Some are straight up anti-Soviet propaganda (Mikhalkov’s “Tired by the sun” series). Other are simply crap or revisionist as hell (Zoya, Devyataev, T-34)

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10 points
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9 points
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