Permanently Deleted
posts like the tweet 100% bring more people into the leftist fold than push out, you whiny purists
Gonna have to disagree friend.
These tweets are at best inconsequential, what this person is advocating for isn’t in line with what we want as socialists and is just misleading people and muddying communication.
If someone is coming into the fold it’s because they heard about our ideals and agreed with them not because they liked some radlibs misunderstanding of what socialism is. It’s entirely likely that they’d be rebuffed by actual socialism if they entered into a community thinking they were getting Canada health care.
Also I feel like maybe we shouldn’t put the line at which point we consider people being purist at “liberals wanting a capitalist colonial power but a bit nicer to its poor people and doing imperialism all over to pay for it.”
i know dozens of lefty-curious libs who get on board with the ideas in the tweet versus a few “read theory” socialists and i know which type people like being around. there’s a reason bernie was so popular.
Well yea and also their ideas are a lot more palatable to the status quo then full socialism. They’ve spent 70 years red scaring and demonizing our ideas. The policies that soccdems like Bernie and these kinds of tweets espouse have historically been reserved to throw out as a way to assuage revolutionary fervor but 2020 kind of showed us that that may be a thing of the past.
Either way I think it’s fair to say it’s not representative of anything we’d want to see as a change in the order of things, generally. And again settler colonial states robbing developing countries to half ass take care of their own people while still being ruled by capital is simply not good enough with the world being in as dire of a situation as it is.
The fact that real socialism is harder to get across than social Democrat ideas in a bourgeois capital state really isn’t as much of an indictment of “read theory” people as much as it is on the control of the status quo and framing of which ideas are acceptable by organizations such as the cia and capital controlled media/education.
If someone is coming into the fold it’s because they heard about our ideals and agreed with them not because they liked some radlibs misunderstanding of what socialism is.
On the contrary, tons of people got turned onto actual socialism by hearing Bernie talk about stuff like M4A and then digging deeper.
I mean I still think it’s good to criticize these things to point out that they’re not socialism to reaffirm that division especially for any baby leftist that may have stumbled in from Bernie or whatever as you say.
As far as what amount of Bernie bros end up subscribing to any given tendency of socialism and what just stay libs or whatever (stupidpol has a high amount of them as I understand it) without any data, we’d just be arguing over which of our intuitions are correct.
I’m not saying there’s not a few people who may make it through but it’s still good to reaffirm what it is we’re about, and also the main thing I took issue with really is the idea that we’re being too “purist” for not accepting something that’s not only patently not socialism as part of our ideology, but something that really is inherently antithetical to it in every way that really counts.
Bernie said that Cuba had a good literacy program and got negged by the news for months over it. None of the others will ever dare to fly half that close to the sun of praising historical or existing socialism.
Because Bernie showed there’s nothing to be gained by making that argument, at least right now.
Do we want to win, or do we want to hear people say nice things about the USSR?
is this the successful strategy of Bernie’s campaigns I keep hearing about? First world succdems are global parasites as much as their rightwing counterparts.
famously socialist country switzerland
