you are pushing back in opposite directions.

nope. it’s coherent, you’re just not following it properly

ukraine want to get the most concessions/best deal they can from any meeting

if you don’t message strongly to your own forces the summit can and will be spun as surrender

ukraines forces believing that could become disheartened/abandon positions/whatever

this would weaken ukraines position in negotiations

this would stop them from getting the most beneficial deal in any negotiation

I’m not going to have a discussion about fucking tone policing with you mate, deal with it

it’s important to show a brave face to your own population and your own armed forces.

if you go into a negotiation presenting anything but bare faced, insane confidence it’ll be instantly spun as surrender. people don’t tend to like carrying on fighting when they think their government is going to surrender at any moment.

this doesn’t make them stronger in the eyes of russia in negotiations and at no point have I said it did, that’s your miscomprehension.

it’s a prerequisite, a thing you just have to do going into negotiations to not weaken your position.

I’m not tone policing anything, I think the way this war is being comprehended on here is getting worse and worse so I’m pushing back at things I think are wrong.

you can say what you want and I’ll say what I want.

good

we’re not talking about a legit NATO/russia total war scenario though, I think everyone would assume that this would lead to mutual destruction

I completely disagree that it’s not for their own citizens, that’s the main audience.

it’s not madness, it’s not madness when russia threaten nuclear attack when they have no plans to use them either.

it’s gone well beyond sabre rattling, nobody’s worried about escalating shit through words, they’re in a full war.

if you think this obviously over the top media soundbite is going to be received as anything other than pablum by the russians you’re wrong. it’s totally irrelevant to the negotiations. imagine being in a full war for three days and then getting upset because your enemy did a press release where they exaggerated their status.

liverpool were singing YNWA through it which they always do (good lads) and the chelsea lot (awful removed) were booing liverpool for not saving the queen

they weren’t at peace talks when the statement was released, if they sit down at the table and come out with this shit they’re daft.

releasing it the the media beforehand is propaganda - really obvious propaganda. projecting strength going into the negotiations.

people on here are acting like like they’ve gone mad, writing about absurd Jokers who don’t want peace and believe in the coming miraculous domination of their enemies.

part of spotting propaganda is knowing that the people saying it usually don’t really believe it either, or are massively exaggerating a belief.

this is just totally standard doctrinaire shit for negotiating.

they always have them at the finals. I remember millwall fans got in trouble for throwing coins at soldiers in 04.

millwall are scum but you’ve got to say that’s pretty funny.

someone I know who knows more about this than me said making nuclear threats is standard operating procedure even in local wars in russian military doctrine. they say it’s posturing.

hope theyre right like

do you think they should enter the talks saying “we’re getting our arses whipped and lay ourselves on the mercy of the russian federation?”

you obviously bluff as hard as you can get away with going into negotiations. literally everyone in the world would do that.