The Marx understander as logged on

Ok explain to me what is Industrialization according to your own interpretation of Marx. I’ll try not to laugh.

Actually try reading Marx. The existence of commodities and money does not mean capitalism exists. Capital is created in very specific circumstances

Ah the famous “socialist commodities” of Stalin.

“The historic conditions of its existence are by no means given with the mere circulation of money and commodities. It [capitalism] can spring into life only when the owner of the means of production and subsistence meets in the market with the free laborer selling his labor power.” (Capital, Vol. I, International ed., p. 170.)

Cuba has laborers working for a wage with which they buy goods on the market. According to this definition by Marx, Cuba is capitalist. Do you read your own quote spam?

If workers do not meet owners of production in a free market to sell their labour power as a commodity and instead are allocated work via a central planning directive to workplace that is state owned and nationalised that’s not capitalism and capital has not been created as much you’d like it to be. If the direct producers, the workers, are not divorced from the means of production, and if consequently neither these means nor labor power function as commodities, then no survivals of “bourgeois right,” nor any amount of other inequities and injustices, can allow of such a society being properly termed capitalist.

Cuba famously does not produce commodities, what is sells on the world market and in its own markets are simply socialist commodities. This proves that Cuba is not capitalist. Money is not money when you cant buy capital with it because the state already owns all capital. Money stops being money when Amazon and Walmart merge and start owning the entire country.

There is no cure to Stalinist revisionism. Luckily, the Dengization of “socialist” states is helping to improve the standard of living in those countries.

They can start by not exploiting their workers. They can end their misguided state capitalist policies. They can actually give power to the working class instead of repressing them.

NK also engages with capitalists lmfao. Their main trading partner is China, they have SEZs where Chinese and SK firms operate. They have a massive black market, and they tax profits. That’s right, they tax profits, not only is all profit not going to the state, they only tax 50% of it. It’s not even socialist by the perverse ML standard.

Did I say poverty has stopped existing? I said that wherever poverty has decreased, it is due to capitalism, even in China.

Is my criticism that Cuba is not becoming an autarky? My criticism is that Cuba exploits its workers the same way that any capitalist nation does. According to ML’s there is no alternative between standard capitalism and the specific form of state capitalism practices by Cuba and NK. Do you understand how horrible it feels to have no connection between your labor efforts and your wage? This is 1000x worse in ML states where prices are arbitrarily set by the state and have no relation to SNLT.

The fact that these states were attacked is due to competition between the state that owns all capital vs private capitalists who want to own capital. The workers have little to say in this matter.

It’s not a bit. Im here to stay, out of the 10000 libs on this site, even if 10 become actual Marxist socialists instead of socdems and red capitalists, it’s worth it.

The only alternative to communism is the kind of exploitation and repression seen in ML states.

“Producing commodities for sale is not capitalism. Capitalism is only when bad rich man doesnt pay you.” - Karl Marx.