ofriceandruin [none/use name]
All these responses to the effect of “if you didn’t want to have a child you should have been personally responsible for your sperm” reek of victim blaming, tbh. It’s akin to the line of thinking “you shouldn’t have worn that skirt if you didn’t wanna get raped by Senator Biden, Ms. Reid.” The same “when you freely give your sperm” argument could be applied to a woman to stop her from getting an abortion. Let’s not use that line of reasoning please. It’s shallow and tbh, kinda reactionary.
Others have said that if we lived in a world where the child was taken care of, they’d see no problem but for now we don’t live in that world so a man should pay. This also reeks of something like “well sorry Mr. Poor Person, if you couldn’t afford to eat fresh vegetables from the organic farmer’s market and instead ate mcdonald’s because you live in a food desert, you pretty much caused your own health issues. Listen I’d love to live in a world with no food deserts, but we don’t, so this is on you.”
I also worry that putting so much emphasis on the “sperm contributing partner” can lead to an essentialist line of thinking. I know the term is meant to not be essentialist but I can easily see it being construed as “yeah, it’s just like I always thought deep down, a man should pay.”
It’s clear that no one who wants a child should have the burden to take care of it. That’s society’s burden. All of this “we don’t have that world yet so let’s strap one or both of the people” sounds very reactionary tbh.
Not gonna lie this seems like something conservatives would say, “listen i’d love to live in a world where we take care of the children, but we don’t b/c human nature, men are men, women are nurturing, etc., etc. so the man has to pay.” (and yes I know you didn’t say anything essentializing but it’s not far from what you said to what something like Ben Shapiro would say)
When you freely give your sperm to someone you lose the right to determine what happens to it. If you aren’t comfortable with that arrangement you need to be vigilant about your condom usage or get a vasectomy. I’ve been vigilant about my birth control usage because I don’t want children.
Not gonna lie this sounds a lot like “well if you didn’t wanna get shot by the police you shouldn’t have done XYZ.”
It’s time we normalize sperm-bearing folks to take their ability to create life as seriously as those who who carry the pregnancy.
Not gonna lie this kinda sounds like a conservative argument to “make the man pay because they should be responsible because men are men, etc. etc.”
I disagree. It should be like universal healthcare or universal college.
If we only make the rich and upper middle class pay, we’d get into the same issue that they have with universal college: the “why should the son of a millionare get free college?” kinda BS. It’ll lead to means testing and all that kinda stuff.
Because we’re not talking about extra-judicial violence.
In this case we’re talking about judicially sanctioned violence of the state imposing their will on someone who didn’t consent to taking care of a child they didn’t want. It also perpetuates a lot of stereotypes (e.g. black dead-beat father who’s never there, etc.)
We’re talking about two consenting adults having sex.
I get what you’re trying to say but often these “adults” aren’t any more mature than your average 15 year old. Scientific research is revealing that our brains don’t really develop the ability to think in terms of long term consequences until at least 25 or so. Even if they are consenting adults (mentally mature and all of that good stuff), if one partner doesn’t want a child then they don’t want it. The messy reality is that most people don’t consciously think of this stuff before they act. They’re not like your wealthy suburban libs that “plan” everything. I don’t think they should be strapped with this personal responsibility thing. I still think it’s akin to blaming a poor person for using a plastic bag or plastic straw. It’s some lib-shaming kinda shit.
Arguing that a 25 year old doesn’t understand the consequences of sex is incredibly patronizing.
I don’t think so. How many chapos have done dumb shit at that age that they later regret? Like I said nobody is really mature until much later than the legal age in most countries: https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-47622059 (lib source I know). Plus this kind of reasoning is what boomer-types like to use on young people (i.e. "you youngins ain’t kids anymore, so just die in this neoliberal hellscape!).
I’m not lib-shaming. This is a socialist forum. All of us want all children to be born into a generous social safety net. OP is asking about a pregnancy now, in the present world.
I get that, but this kind of “present world” talk comes off as telling coal-miners to “learn coding” without offering anything material to help them transition to stable employment, etc. And if you’re gonna talk about the “present world” and changing it, tactically speaking (in terms of persuading your average Joe who gets triggered at the idea of child support) it does come off as shaming.