ofriceandruin [none/use name]

I agree with you about social democracy, but at this point don’t we have to deal with more than a simple division between capitalist and working class? Seems like at this point in history it’s more of a spectrum than a binary. If that’s truly the case then what would you suggest? Also, let’s remember that there hasn’t been a real, successful socialist revolution in the imperial core/global north (at least to my limited knowledge). I don’t want to get into some weird revolutionary LARPing here.

That was in response to many comments that used the concept of “sperm contributing partner paying the costs.” I tried to point out there that it comes off as thinly-veiled gender essentialism.

Fuck no, the state should become the sole domain of the working class, the capital class should be tossed outside its protection, so they as a social caste can wither and die, this is less “means testing” and more total class warfare

Uh… Okay… but then who’s working class and who’s capitalist class? You said earlier that “rich” people should be forced to pay. Now you’re saying capital class. What are you trying to say?

Yes I’m using those terms interchangeably. Anyone’s whose majority income is accrued through direct capital gains and conscious investment in labor markets is a capitalist and should be “means tested” the fuck outta of any state protection

Then why not do it through a taxation system that’s less likely to trigger direct reaction (i.e. “they’re stealing my money to pay for them blacks!”).

Sure, but why is this rhetoric all good when it comes to things like “defund the police” or “tax the 1%” or “medicare for all” but then people turn into big time austerity Biden libs when I suggest universal child support? It strikes me that there’s something deeper going on.

we’re talking about the income of individuals

I’ll say this: the money printer machine goes brrr for so many things, but when it comes to child support, all of a sudden there’s all sorts of austerity talk and “personal responsibility.” I call BS on that… it’s that simple.

let’s be real the spectrum only existed in the first world, in the third world the class war has raged on unabated, the binary clear as day

I agree with you here, but in that case do we just sit back and wait? Or are you suggesting that the only way to further sharpen the lines of division is to somehow “accelerate” them?

If I could I would

Existing gender roles lead to women being seen as the better caregiver than men. Don’t we want to fight against gender roles?

Apparently they don’t lol… which is why I was worried that they were using thinly veiled gender essentialism when they were talking about things like the “sperm producing” partner carrying the burden and talking about that personal responsibility shit (i.e. “maybe you shouldn’t have had sex if you didn’t want a baby!”). Also talking about “biological differences” in similar ways to how race realists like to bring that shit up. Honestly the whole thing is super reactionary.

I disagree. It should be like universal healthcare or universal college.

If we only make the rich and upper middle class pay, we’d get into the same issue that they have with universal college: the “why should the son of a millionare get free college?” kinda BS. It’ll lead to means testing and all that kinda stuff.