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“community institutions are dissolving at a faster rate than ever! we did it Reddit!”

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30 points

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What about when those “community institutions” are usually insular and reactionary? And use their power to enforce white supremacy?

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17 points
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“And what if group is bad, is it bad then?” well fucking duh genius. And I’m sorry, are you saying poc aren’t religious/christian or are you saying they’re white supremacist? Why are you painting in such broad strokes? Aren’t African Americans the ones going to church the most?

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21 points
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15 points

Of course I’m not saying that. But the white evangelical bloc, whatever you want to call it, is probably the strongest force of reaction in the United States after the capitalists themselves. I’m glad to see their numbers go down.

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7 points
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I mean…there’s definitely a lot of reasons people aren’t going to church anymore.
That the communities themselves have to address.

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5 points
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This doesn’t apply to many religious institutions

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Guess which aspects of organized religion manifestly aren’t going away, despite secularization?

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3 points

What about when those “community institutions” are usually insular and reactionary?

Any institution can host reactionary leadership. Any institution can become insular over time.

What is the solution? Alienate ourselves for fear of coming in contact with these social elements does nothing to further our goals.

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5 points

reactionary leadership

Except this is where the mass of members - not just the leadership - is highly reactionary. Arguably even more reactionary (source: was an evangelical for 30 years).

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25 points
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Lol pardon my fedora but “community institutions” Jesus fucking christ.

Organized religion in the US, specifically christianity, is the largest and most efficient pipeline to anti-LGBTQ/hyper capitalist/individualist/white supremacist/reactionary ideology - and has been since at least the 70’s.

Aside from the almost inherently reactionary ideology of these religious institutions, much like philanthropy the primary function of the Church is to act as domestic tax havens. If we taxed church’s in the US we’d generate something like $85 billion a year - 3x the amount needed to solve hunger in the US, 8x as much to solve homelessness. This is before the sheer network of brick & mortar church infrastructure that could (in my mind should) be seized and converted to shelters/health clinics/etc.

Long gone are the days of churches harvesting any ideals based in racial and economic justice. Referencing liberation theology, Catholic workers, and radical Christians as if that’s a serious portion of religious affiliation in this country and not just Joel Olsteen mouth breathers is just bordering on romanticism. The idea that this is also largely focused on “white evangelicals” is also dumb shit given 1 in 3 American evangelicals are POC..

Long story short, leftists need to drop this myth that church communities are ripe for radicalization and organizing. The death of religious affiliation and church membership is a net good and has no bearing on ones personal spiritual belief OR our ability to organize for a socialist future.

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4 points

I agree. I mean, in the spirit of comradeship I don’t want to marginalize folks who, for example, believe in liberation theology. But yeah, the sheer size of Evangelicalism relative to more chill versions of Christianity in America means we have to treat it differently.

Though personally I say “white evangelical” because my personal experience has been 99.9% with specifically white evangelicals. I don’t want to presume the beliefs and attitudes of POC evangelicals.

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Sure - but herein lies the problem imo. Criticism of the institutions isn’t an attack on your personal beliefs. We need to separate our personal spiritual beliefs from the institutions that are very reactionary, with real political power, on a global scale, that is almost always weaponized against our goals of racial justice, solidarity, anti-imperialism, LGBTQ rights, and more.

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Idk, what are we supposed to do instead? In my personal experience, the only thing my church did as “community organizing” was to protest abortion clinics (they took credit for multiple clinics being taken down but idk how big their involvement was) and support our wars in the middle east. but I was raised a white catholic, so your milage my vary. It would be interesting to see which communities are leaving churches (I was pretty religious til I realized I’m queer)

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I feel like we can celebrate that Christianity no longer has a hegemonic grip over american society (think about god telling bush to invade iraq, gay marriage, ect) without attacking christian socialists

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7 points
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Deleted by creator
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Yeah, I dont see this as a necessarily good thing either and I’m not even religious. The main culprit for declining church membership is probably dissolution of all social bonds under the fist of capitalism, not some kind of slowly enlightening population. Even the wackiest evangelicals leaving churches aren’t changing what’s in their heads. They’re just becoming even more deluded conspiracy theorists.

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3 points

:sicko-yes:

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