I’ve never met anyone in a Trot org IRL that I disagreed with anything on. To be fair I may not have a disciplined ideology myself, but there’s not a single thing I can point to and say “this is bad and should be critiqued.” All power to the Trots I know IRL, probably the most disciplined and action-based Marxists I know.
Trots online is another thing, like the cranks at WSWS :fedposting:
I worked with my local IMT chapter for almost a year starting Nov 2020. Taking a break now since I don’t have the energy to attend the meetings every week, but looking to get back into it in January. They’re a brand new chapter, especially given that we’re in a MAJOR city, with less than 10 people last time I counted. THey’ve all been great, especially for theory reading groups, and the meetings covered a lot of current events from a Marxist perspective. I don’t like that the organization is explicitly all like “we reject Stalinist style communism,” I’m not comfortable with that even though I don’t know a ton about Stalin, but I have nothing but good things to say about our little local group here.
Yes I’ve been to IMT meetings myself! Lovely people. I was still 100% a lib last time I went, so a bunch of old communists coming up to talk to me was slightly terrifying. But in retrospect they were super cool and welcoming.
As for Stalin stuff, I’m not comfortable with that mindset either. As a lib–> commie convert you slowly start to realize everything you’ve learned is wrong, which makes me take any Stalin criticism with a pinch of salt. That said, I take Stalin worship with the same pinch of salt. I’m just not knowledgable enough to consider it a sticking point and appreciate both perspectives.
People should remember that local groups can be good even if the national leadership is less good. My local CPUSA chapter is pretty good.
I’ve never met anyone in a Trot org IRL that I disagreed with anything on
Did you try bringing up Stalin or modern AES states at any point?
let this be a lesson for all young leftists new to organizing: whenever you meet someone cool, just go probing for inconsequential opinions that you disagree with and then stop associating with them when you find one
Oh boy, whatever gave you that idea? Did someone suggest to you that young leftists should do that? Any lessons on how they shouldn’t assume intentions which don’t exist?
Actually socialism can only be achieved if you agree with me about stalin
Why is it so important that they have perfect opinions on a country neither of you will ever go to/doesn’t exist anymore?
Fuckin hell. The left has to stop jerking off to corpses and distant mirages. It’s obscene
I think you have a point. But speaking from inside the US, if someone thinks China or Cuba etc ought to be a target of US aggression then they are not my comrade. I might align with that person on particular tactical targets, but it’d be a serious error to think we really share bigger goals unless they come around to internationalism.
AES states
I’ve met Trots okay on this. Won’t call them “socialist” but are willing to rhetorically back China, Cuba etc vis a vis the US (and rhetorically back is all most of us practically do).
I’ve seen some too. I’ve also seen anarchists who are okay on this. Honestly, I don’t really mind leftists not calling them socialist so long as they understand US imperialism as a more urgent problem. What I take issue with is people spreading imperialist atrocity propaganda because they justified to themselves that the PRC is capitalist and therefore is just as bad as other capitalist countries.
Nah, online trots are also rught way more times than this site’s main attendance would admit.
Just an example, i posted this spring an IWL (i think) analysis about Cuba which said that the government tampering with the currency in an economic crisis will lead to worsening shortages and an opportunity to imperialists to try to coup Cuba. Of course it was dismissed as deranged trot bs but then it was exactly what happened.
