Russia-Ukraine Megathread 21(upload.wikimedia.org)

Of course, I didn’t say that was why. but like you said it was a component. A well funded, well trained, ideologically rabid festering boil of neo-nazis is much worse when they get tactical missiles. They already had a ton of western firepower. Nazis are the lowest scum on earth.

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Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net

23 points

3 years ago

Sure but I don’t think it’s strategically sound to support or be positive towards Russia for having done this. It would simply disconnect us from the masses. Even China seems to recognise this. Things might have been different had it been a defensive war for DPR/LPR, a “limited incursion” as Biden put it. But this is the whole shaboodle and comes off as an attack rather than a defence, especially with literally nobody knowing there was a nazi problem there to begin with and TO BE HONEST even MLs are only figuring out the scale of the problem now as the conflict goes on. Even those of us that have been watching Ukraine were really unaware of the size of the issue.

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TechnologyMoth [comrade/them,any]@hexbear.net

8 points

3 years ago

Ah jeez saying nazis dying is based might be bad optics u guys.

There is ample documentation of the extent of fascism in 🇺🇦, you need to look harder.

Not gonna debate-brodown, I stand by what I said: nazis getting domed is good only one type of person thinks otherwise

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AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net

22 points

3 years ago

it is good when Nazis die

it is not good when for the nazis to die their entire country has to get flattened by an imperial power using the death of these nazis as a pretext for it’s imperialist chess move, all the while they are held hostage by said nazis. that is not good, actually

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Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net

18 points

3 years ago

The problem is you didn’t really say “nazis dying is based” you said “invading a country is based (because some are nazis)”. That comes off as uncritical support of invading a country.

For communists this is just a way to separate ourselves from any connection to the masses and that just makes things harder. It’s really important to maintain that distinction, nazis dying is very cool and good. But invading the country? Ehhhh.

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TechnologyMoth [comrade/them,any]@hexbear.net

2 points

3 years ago

A couple of questions, what option did Russia have? You seem to be on the same page that Ukraine was a threat due to involvement with NATO and the US military.

At what point of a country becoming full on out in the open Neo-Nazi do MLs support an invasion and re-structuring of said country? I personally trust what Putin says more than the West in regards to this conflict. There are no good guys in a war between capitalist countries, however taking decisive action Vs. Nazis is based and I stand by that.

You don’t see the distinction between that and “full on support of putin and Russian oligarchs” that you are trying to frame it as?

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Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net

2 points

3 years ago

Russia had no other choice, they were driven down this road by nato and its leaders refusing to solve the problem diplomatically.

The doesn’t mean supporting the war though, it simply means recognising that Russia did in fact try to avoid it and nobody took it seriously or they (nato) wanted it to happen.

At what point of a country becoming full on out in the open Neo-Nazi do MLs support an invasion and re-structuring of said country?

Good question, I think the answer is never. Sovereignty should be held above all and if we don’t uphold it then we can’t undercut american/imperialist interventions, particularly against AES states.

A war of defence against such nazi countries after they demonstrably attempt to attack another sovereign state would be justifiable and remain consistent with this principle.

I will caveat this by saying I’m not too heavily committed to this position though and I’m taking my cues from Chinese marxists on the idea that we should be completely hands off when it comes to the internal matters of foreign states.

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TechnologyMoth [comrade/them,any]@hexbear.net

2 points

3 years ago

Interesting. Even when the Neo-Nazi government that is a militant arm of the most powerful fascist nation to have ever existed is at your doorstep carrying out ethnic cleansing against your ethnicity? I guess the waters are fairly muddy when you consider the Russian claim on Donbas. It’s difficult to come up with examples that would put burgers in the shoes of any of the people involved. If the US was completely Nazi-fied and Washington claimed sovereignty, and received support from Canada while being massacred for years, I think people in Washington would be ready for intervention.

That position also implies that MLs in the US would never accept foreign intervention if things really hit the fan here, whether it meant a drastic improvement of material conditions or driving fascists out of power in favor of capitalist, but less outright fascism. It might come down to accepting hypocrisy if it means generating better material conditions.

That leaves behind the realm of detached analysis, but it’s important to ponder, because my gut tells me some fascist shit is going to happen in the US sooner than people realize.

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