Comment by Sandals [none/use name]@hexbear.net on Congrats to the largest socialist organisation in the US of A on achieving this milestone.

Alienating folks because they make a high wage is silly. If they work for a living then they likely identify more with you than their multi-millionaire CEO. Also, a post-revolution society will need individuals who are currently paid well under our capitalist system. Shunning potential class traitors moves them right.

If they work for a living then they likely identify more with you than their multi-millionaire CEO.

The CEO also “works for a living.”

It’s not about shunning people, but recognizing how the class composition of an organization affects it’s politics

Sure but their CEO controls mass amounts of capital.

Yeah the DSA probably doesn’t have great foreign policy, but it’s one of the best places in the US to find politically active individuals who are going to be more open to leftward leaning ideologies.

Eh. That wasn’t the main point but whatever.

Sorry man, I don’t really get your point then in context to what I was trying to tell the original comment I replied to.

The point is that it’s worth considering how the class composition affects the DSA as an organization

I think that’s a fair point.

All I was trying to say to the original comment was that just because people get paid doesn’t mean they can’t also be comrades.

This mentality is inherently liberal. You’re putting the superstructure ahead of the base by assuming that people will become revolutionary by pure ideology alone rather than their material and class interests. Honestly it seems to me like most “leftists” would just rather talk to college educated peers than poor black and brown folks who make up the actual Proletariat in this country.

First off, thank you for the compliment.

I think people can be radicalized by ideology or material conditions, mostly a combination thereof.

“Honestly it seems to me like most “leftists” would just rather talk to college educated peers than poor black and brown folks who make up the actual Proletariat in this country.”

^I don’t see what this has to do with my opinion that the DSA could help move people down a path of radicalization. Seems pretty ad hominem at that, you don’t know anything about me dude.

Not everything is about you personally lol. The only thing I said about you personally I’d that your analysis is wrong.

I think people can be radicalized by ideology or material conditions, mostly a combination thereof.

Yes, this is the divide between the intelligentsia consciousness & the proletariat consciousness in communist parties.

Revolutions do not succeed when led by the intelligentsia, because they are not materially driven.

And yet pretty much all successful socialist revolutions up till now were led by the intelligencia 🤔

If you’re making over $100k a year, you’re either a professional, in tech, or in management

Lol. Don’t be so dense. I didn’t say the PMC are “the enemy.” Just that they have distinct class characteristics that affect their politics.

Subsistence living fetishization isn’t fucking leftist.

“workers of the world, unite with bourgeois college kids!”

I’d be fine with uniting with them, just not being subordinate to them lol.

Nothing is “leftist” because there is no such thing as “leftism”. It’s a bullshit meaningless term like “progressive”.

If you don’t understand how the petit bourgeois and PMC classes have different class interests than the actual Proletariat than honestly you should do some more reading. There is a very breadtube sentiment among the western left that “anyone who works for a wage/salary is a worker” or whatever and they’re right but they’re wrong to think that their interests align with those at the bottom. Even blue collar skilled workers who grew up poor but make $85k/yr now as a plumber or electrician have very few interests in common with the Proletariat and are usually the most reactionary segment of society. The reactionary nature of the Labor Aristocracy and Petit Bourgeoisie manifests as overt Fascism, while the “progressive” conservative nature of the PMC manifests as Social Fascism.

Having your organization be 30% petit bourgeois/PMC is going to effect the class character of its politics. If they’re a small fraction that must be subordinate to a Proletarian majority that is fine but 30% is enough to pull any org in a certain direction.

Way more than 30% of DSA have a “PMC consciousness.” Aspiring graphic designers working service “but it’s just temporary” is a serious cohort in the org.

In their defense, a large portion of the college-educated proletariat thinks this way right now.

We will need engineers and programmers

Totally, also pharmacists, dentists, doctors. All kinds of folks.

Protests, dual power, and even electoralism.

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Congrats to the largest socialist organisation in the US of A on achieving this milestone.(twitter.com)

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