Permanently Deleted
You’re saying it did well despite being a redemption arc, not because of it. Or more precisely, that redemption arcs are mostly bad but avatar was just an example of an Only Good One.
HOLY SHIT your shoulders much hurt with all that reaching. Here’s the exact quote:
The problem is they forget that Zuko’s redemption wasn’t good because it was a redemption arc but because it was a genuine deepening of his character that took the entire series to complete.
I said that Zuko’s redemption arc wasn’t inherently good because it was a redemption arc, but because it deepened his character. Saying that redemption arcs don’t automatically make a story better != saying that redemption arcs suck and are trash. Redemption arcs, like most literary tropes, are neutral. Redemption arcs are just more popular now and writers who don’t understand why they work often do them poorly.
Someone who’s a genocidal fascist is obviously a bad person but isn’t incapable of changing. It’s factually wrong to say they are. It’s certainly absurdly unlikely, but it’s not impossible. Whether or not they “deserve” it is beside the point.
“It is me, Hitler, who now having been surrounded by the allies wishes to say he is sorry about the mass slaughter of millions. I now know it was bad, I won’t do it again and I have learned my lesson.”
“Well fuck, guess Hitler really was sorry. Pack it up everyone, redemption arc completed. No need to think about how blatant forgiveness of genocidal dictators is bad or something.” - GonzoBonzo.
What a great moral lesson to teach people.
The scenario you detailed in your comment even makes sense, if we had complete military dominance over someone evil and they said they were sorry just like then just take the W that they’re scared enough of you to at least pretend to be sorry.
I wonder what the victims of this person would think about letting the murderer of their parents, partners, and children go free without major consequence because of some half-assed apology? That’s the problem with redemption arcs, they’re almost always centered around the feelings of the abuser rather than the feelings of the abused.
I’m saying that redemption arcs are inherently good in the sense that they come from a good place.
Redemption is a very fucking dangerous idea to push in media because in real life 95% of the time it’s a cynical attempt by an abuser to re-take control of the people they abuse. Almost every TV show that does shit like this ends with the previous piece of shit becoming a normal person after receiving forgiveness from the people they hurt. So when in real life your abusive partner doesn’t change after their grand redemption, you’re left wondering what went wrong. People have enough economic and social pressure to stay with shitty people without media pressuring them. Look up The Cycle of Abuse. Reconciliation/redemption is more often than not another step in the cycle than any genuine change.
I’d rather have 10 genuinely changed people be sad and unfulfilled about the shitty things they’ve done than even 1 person falling for an abuser’s trap. Despite this, I still think redemption arcs can be done correctly. However, most writers are wholly unprepared to write about the topic.
