while another mod said that @muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml is funded by the NED.
What is the NED? I have no idea, but Google suggests that could be The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), an independent, nonprofit foundation dedicated to the growth and strengthening of democratic institutions around the world.
This one is something:
I quite doubt you’ll see such thing as sane leftists generally simply discount tankie talking points out of hand – you look for certain patterns and the sources they cite and say “eh, not worth reading”, and also “eh, not worth replying to” because talking to a tankie is talking to a TV. They have a closed world-view, are able to bend reality itself to fit their core beliefs in the same way hardcore flat-earthers can. You’ll be able to head over to random socialist places and find people who can readily address points, cut through the historical revisionism and selective reading that tankies do, but you’ll have to actually, well, ask questions and things might get egg-headed. If you address tankies directly I recommend going for broad-strokes arguments and questions and refuse to let yourself be dragged into areas that can’t be wikipedia’d quickly, say, the status of unions in the USSR. An unprepared tankie is not unlikely to flat-out claim that they were independent from the party. Ask them about whether they think people should be sent to Gulag over their interpretation of Darwin, suchlike: They will either deny it, at which point they disagree with Stalin which means that he did, in fact, do things which were not right, which is inconsistent with what they believe in, or they will support it, outing themselves as batshit crazy plain for everyone to see (and also disagreeing with post-Stalin USSR scientific community, much less the world’s scientific community). Coming to the question of “why are tankies the way they are in the first place” though we come, at least from an Anarchist POV, to vanguardism as a core feature everything hinges on: The idea that for radical change to be possible, the masses must be led by a revolutionary vanguard. Marxist-Leninists all tend to fall into that category in one way or the other (and there’s plenty of e.g. Trots who are cringe but perfectly fine human beings) but it’s tankies who take it up to 11 by declaring themselves (and of course Stalin etc) infallible, and any opposition to their exalted “infallible” positions as counter-revolutionary. Thus, if you are not of the exact same opinion as them you’re the enemy and voila you have a cult going that can justify anything to itself. This “change is caused by small groups leading broad masses” thing then leads to the “everything is a proxy war” type of thinking you see: It is inconceivable for tankies to think that Ukrainians would have a free will, a desire to decide their fate, and as they were drifting further and further away from Russia of course the CIA must be behind that. It’s pure projection. (And, just for the record, yes, even Anarchists technically form vanguards. From “farming commune doing its thing and writing revolutionary poetry” to “Let’s stop right-wing militias from slaughtering native people and then live among the natives and talk about humanism”, see Chiapas). (Also, Tankiedom is a CONTELPRO programme, their purpose is to make lefitsts in general look bonkers and inherently oppressive. Convince me otherwise).
you address tankies directly I recommend going for broad-strokes arguments and questions and refuse to let yourself be dragged into areas that can’t be wikipedia’d quickly, say, the status of unions in the USSR.
Not doing basic research to own the tankoids
And, just for the record, yes, even Anarchists technically form vanguards. From “farming commune doing its thing and writing revolutionary poetry” to “Let’s stop right-wing militias from slaughtering native people and then live among the natives and talk about humanism”, see Chiapas)
Lmao I can tell this person is white. The Zapatistas aren’t “living among the natives.” They are the fucking natives. And certainly not anarchists
Also, Tankiedom is a CONTELPRO programme, their purpose is to make lefitsts in general look bonkers and inherently oppressive. Convince me otherwise
Things with evidence of CIA and FBI interference are just tankie paranoia. But thing without proof is an FBI op because they annoy me
If you address tankies directly I recommend going for broad-strokes arguments and questions and refuse to let yourself be dragged into areas that can’t be wikipedia’d quickly
The tankies are the propagandized people. Not me who doesn’t want to learn and research new things about history that might change my opinion. Instead the vague bad things I’ve heard all my life from being submerged in anti communist propaganda that I can just reference to bring up a narrative in the minds of average americans are the best argument. (The difference in effort put into just saying “Molotov Ribbentrop pact nazis and soviets allies” vs having to actually explain the historical context of the lands, the soviet gestures towards the western allies, the immediate effect of saving lives, etc really proves how the tankies are the closed minded ones)
They will either deny it, at which point they disagree with Stalin which means that he did, in fact, do things which were not right, which is inconsistent with what they believe in, tankies who take it up to 11 by declaring themselves (and of course Stalin etc) infallible
Uhh yeah stalin did do things that were not right. He stopped at Berlin. Seriously though, it’s obvious stalin made mistakes. No inconsistent positions here.
The projection and irony on display is legendary.
you look for certain patterns and the sources they cite and say “eh, not worth reading”, and also “eh, not worth replying to” because talking to a tankie is talking to a TV. They have a closed world-view
refuse to let yourself be dragged into areas that can’t be wikipedia’d quickly
Literally admitting to not wanting to read or learn anything from sources that might educate you or change your mind, while proclaiming that MLs are the ones that have a closed worldview.
because talking to a tankie is talking to a TV
If anyone can be compared to a TV it’s a liberal, because they like to repeat every bit of state department line they see on mainstream television.
at which point they disagree with Stalin which means that he did, in fact, do things which were not right, which is inconsistent with what they believe in declaring themselves (and of course Stalin etc) infallible
I’ve never met a single ML who honestly believed that communists and communist leaders are incapable of making mistakes, or that they are infallible. Criticism and self-criticism are important parts of Marxism, but of course this lib wouldn’t know that, because they admitted they don’t read.
Trots who are cringe but perfectly fine human beings
Yes, that’s totally what a real anarchist would say, and not a liberal who has no understanding of Trotskyism who will support the trots just because they’re opposed to those darn authoritarian tankies! I’m sure their opinion wouldn’t have been any different if Stalin and Trotsky’s roles were reversed…
(And, just for the record, yes, even Anarchists technically form vanguards. From “farming commune doing its thing and writing revolutionary poetry” to “Let’s stop right-wing militias from slaughtering native people and then live among the natives and talk about humanism”, see Chiapas).
Yeah… this person is definitely a Vaushite larper, and really does not understand the concept of revolutionary vanguardism, and why anarchists don’t like it.
of course the CIA must be behind that. It’s pure projection.
Says the lib who can’t stop projecting, and just open a book for once in their life.
Also, Tankiedom is a CONTELPRO programme, their purpose is to make lefitsts in general look bonkers and inherently oppressive. Convince me otherwise).
Shit, they got me. I work for the feds. After decades of targeting tankies and infiltrating tankie organizations, they’re now funding the tankies! Oh yeah, I’m also being funded by the NED, by the way. Known for spreading communism throughout the world. They offered me a better paycheck than Soros, so I couldn’t resist.
I feel sorry for my fellow anarchist comrades that libs like this have been infecting online anarchist spaces with their Vaushite brained nonsense, and making you look like uneducated libs.
(Tankies) are able to bend reality itself
That’s an incredibly tortured way to say “Every time I go online to debunk them, the facts always seem to be on their side”.
They will either deny it, at which point they disagree with Stalin which means that he did, in fact, do things which were not right, which is inconsistent with what they believe in,
I feel like a vampire looking at someone trying to wave a cross at me, wondering what effect they thought this was gonna have. This is the kind of hilarious misunderstanding of a culture that could only have been written by someone with a pith hat and multiple opium pipes.
