https://libreddit.kavin.rocks/r/TheDeprogram/comments/11s7x4u/badempanada_uyhgers_video/

Found in the Deprogram subā€™s discussion ofnit which is quite good. Radio War Nerd also does this beating around the bush with Zenzā€™s beliefs. To say nothing of Deprogram & RWN Russia takes,

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23 points
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Saying ā€œactually both sidesā€ or ā€œthe truth is somewhere in the middleā€ doesnā€™t automatically mean thereā€™s nuance

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2 points

Between ā€œitā€™s genocideā€ and ā€œnothing morally objectionable is happeningā€ the truth is somewhere in the middle, I understand Chinaā€™s policy in Xinjiang but I would prefer it were different

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4 points
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Itā€™s a program that impacts millions of people, there is going to be variance no matter what, and there would be ā€œvery concernedā€ people who just want ā€œnuanceā€ no matter what, because that variance that exists in reality will always produce at least some poor outcomes to handwring about and say you ā€œprefer it were differentā€, since nothing goes wrong in the ideal version they imagine in their head.

The bottom line is that Chinaā€™s program is worth supporting both for the people of Xinjiang who were being terrorized and for the stability of China as a whole, and the handwringing is functionally only thinly distinguished from concern trolling when one merely speaks in vagueries about ā€œmorally objectionable things happeningā€.

If you have specific objections, name them. Otherwise, just move on instead of engaging in that absurd song and dance against imaginary dogmatists.

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4 points
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If you have specific objections, name them

I would say the ā€œpossibleā€ (Iā€™m honestly not quite sure how widespread it is) sterilization that mightā€™ve produced a massive drop in birth rate is one of them

And the other is the too broad institutionalization of people based on their activities, I know theyā€™re not just putting people in these institutions against their will because they are muslim, there has to be other criteria, but I find it hard to believe that everyone (or maybe even most) who passes through them actually was, or had a probability of becoming, a terrorist.

And generally Iā€™m taking a ā€œwait and seeā€ approach, because intuitively I would say that this program wonā€™t actually end separatist terrorism (as US wars didnā€™t end terrorism and increased it) because of the resentment it can provoke in people in Xinjiang whoā€™ll end up being radicalized, but there hasnā€™t been an attack in a while soā€¦

Itā€™s literally the ā€œpeopleā€™s war on terrorā€ and Iā€™m not saying that as a criticism (even in a completely ideal socialist society there may be terrorism) but I do think some things can be done in the name of it that will go too far.

Regardless Iā€™m only willing to discuss this in places like these, otherwise Iā€™m careful not to play into anti-china propaganda

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Theyā€™re training these people to be realtors bro you need to look at the genzedong google doc like the Elder Scrolls

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