1. It had some nazies prior to about 2020. Not even close to the amount of nazies Russia has though so that’s a meaningless point.
2. The countries joining NATO are joining because Russia keeps threatening them. If Russia just wanted a neutral zone they should really stop invading their neighbours. Georgia and Ukraine got invaded and Russia is doing a proxy war in Moldova as well so it seems the only thing causing NATO advancement is Russia.
3. Except they also demanded demilitirization. So no allies or self defence.
4. One if the points of that agreement to even take effect was that Russia removed their troops from the regions which they never did.
5. They may now, depending on how the war goes.

No idea what these points are other than just lies. Russia has never had complete air superiority and definitely doesn’t now. Russia is targeting civilians constantly, like the largest mass graves in recent history were found in territories takes back from Russia. As for the equipment and manpower: Like Russia is rolling out museum pieces as tanks I have no idea where you are getting this info from. They do have more manpower since they are conscripting like everyone.

None of that was in reference to NATO encirclement. As in it was already encircled 15 years ago and Ukraine wasn’t joining NATO.

The political leadership Nuland ‘selected’ was the leader of the opposition party that was going to be in power anyways. That’s like some foreign politician saying they really like the reform party in Estonia to win after they already got the most votes.

Can’t find any ethnic cleansing done in Ukraine outside the Tatars by the Soviet union.

I’m guessing you mostly watch Russian state media since absolutely no one else thinks Russia could just take Ukraine if they wanted at this point. I’d suggest going to some other sources.

Oh, I’m liberal now. Weird as I was a fascist just before I left reddit. In a few hours someone will call me a communist.

You should be honest with yourself and at least become familiar with the context of the demands before forming an opinion. I’ll give you a hint: UA does have a very real Nazi problem that is directly connected to RF’s invasion.

I’m very honest with myself. I also try to not bullshit myself into believing it’s only an Ukraine problem.

Russia didn’t invade Crimea and then the Donbas region in 2014 because of Nazis. After Yanukovych weirdly reverted his position on Europe (European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement) and got kicked out, Russia decided to invade to support all those “Russian speakers”. Of course, there was even a referendum, but as Igor Girkin said, they had the guns and politicians did as they were told.

People like to forget that far-right groups like the Azov Battalion and some of far-left/anarchist groups that joined the fight were only created after the invasion, after the Ukrainian army completely failed to do their job. It’s as if the ultra-nationalist and people with more extreme views in general are the first to react to an aggression against their country! /s

But yes, Ukraine had “nazis”, but so did Russia. I recommend reading about people like Aleksandr Dugin (and his views), which seems to be liked even by Putin himself. As a space fan and a fan of some of the Soviet accomplishments, I couldn’t help but notice that when the war started, the boss of Roscosmos was Dmitry Rogozin… an old member of the Russian National Unity party, which had some “interesting” views. In fact, here’s a picture of young Rogozin with the flag of the party in the background. I’ll also give you a hint: they’re nazi as fuck.

I guess we need to invade Russia, right? And make some demands where Russia gives away part of their territory… at least that’s what the very well informed and smart people such as yourself think should happen? Or this only applies to when Russia has a problem with someone else?

Also, in 2019 the far-right party (Svoboda) received 2.16% of the votes in the whole country. Not even 3%. And then Russia comes in, invades Ukraine again and transforms Azov into national heroes. Well, good fucking job Russia! I’m sure that helps reducing support for nazis. /s

These are open-ended questions and a proper explanation would take a long time. And let’s just say I’m dubious that you’re actually curious. The (over)simple answer is that they’re taking a deal to be subservient to the United States, which usually requires their political class, and therefore economic ruling class, to see an interest in doing do. Not that they’re correct - the US is slowly deindustrializing its European allies as we speak. The reason why those interests won out? Those are specific historical stories. Try answering your own question but for Ukraine’s toying with NAT membership. What led to the change in their political class?

If that’s the case, then Putin must be part of the conspiracy? The guy managed to give a new life to the alliance and even recruited 2 new countries where popular support to joining used to be really low. There’s no way he’s helping NATO so much without being part of all that. Surely you can see the guy is a plant?

Or maybe there’s a simpler explanation (Occam’s razor, for the cool kids).

Maybe people read what Russian politicians say, look at the size of their country, remember what happened during the days of the Soviet Union (and now at what happened to Ukraine) and say: “maybe we should be friends with that big guy over there, just in case the local bully decides to invade us”.

Of course my lIbErAl mind is too dumb to understand high level politics like you do, but if one reads Putin’s On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians and Address concerning the events in Ukraine, it’s not that hard to imagine that there’s a much simpler reason.

What lead to the change in Ukraine’s political class? Other than Yanukovych’s reversal and people getting pissed? I don’t know. If you’re suggesting any foul play, I’d like to remind you that Russia intervened directly in Belarus and Kazakhstan, so apparently that’s all good.

Case in point that you’re not curious in any real answers.

I’m curious, that’s why I sometimes actually read what Mr Putin says, am aware of his obsession with Peter the Great and his conquest of the Azov sea, etc. I also watch a bit of Russian television as they have interesting views on countries around them. I’m not even talking about weekly threats of nuking European cities or higher ups at Russia Today suggesting that Ukrainian kids should be killed in a river… Did you know that Kazakhstan now has a lot of “ethnic Russians” in need of protection? A bit weird since everything was fine until they stopped playing ball with Russia…

To know the real answers you can’t filter out everything that doesn’t fit your view. You have people like Putin making up excuses for his view that Ukraine is not really a proper country… yet you decide not to read it and to outright ignore it. And I’m the dumb guy who doesn’t want real answers?

Liberals often use cartoonish examples to understand a world for which their knowledge and ideology are inadequate.

My apologies, let me make it easier for you:

• Russia, which is not governed by morons, decided to invade Ukraine to accomplish certain objectives. They knew what they were doing, you don’t need to make excuses up to defend their actions.

• Like any major power, they don’t give a fuck about Ukraine or the people that live in Ukraine. It’s not a nice thing, but hey, it is what it is.

• No, Russia didn’t have to invade. No, Ukraine wasn’t going to invade Russia (nuclear obviously, plus they struggle to take control of their own territory…). And no, there’s no way in hell 2014 Ukraine was going to join NATO (they’ve been trying since the early 2000’s…).

Anyway, if you want to support them, then fine. Just don’t try to come up with bs excuses for what they’re doing. You like Russia and you like what they’re doing. I on the other hand don’t agree with they’re doing and also have a similar position when other countries do the same, so you can see why I don’t support their invasion of Ukraine.

It’s literally everywhere in this thread. There’s history lessons abound about how bad Ukraine is (with no noticeable criticism of Russia) but no example of what should be done now except to have them give up their sovereignty, their most valuable land, and giving in to Russian’s demands.

Show one example, lib.