Dude’s an ultra
Bonus: https://nitter.net/uncle_authority/status/1721967810241335347#m
I guess the Deprogram guys are the Three Stooges now? But the joke doesn’t really work
The material conditions that made religion bury deeply into the cultures of the world will slowly fade as the world progresses.
As marx pointed out religion is the opium of the masses, not as in a party drug but as in a drug that eases the pain and suffering off the oppressed.
Sure, and he’s right as far as religions – and especially state-run bourgeois religions – hampering and preventing revolution. But we have material evidence that (1) religion can and does give voice to and even assist revolutions (Marx and Engels both used religious imagery in their writings) and (2) post-revolution, the desire for spirituality and forms of religion persist even with upheaval and reorganization of material conditions from feudal to capitalist to socialist. Maybe it will die off completely in the future, but that hasn’t happened in any AES country to date and that’s really important to note.
This are my thoughts.
(1) religion can be used as a tool for our cause temporarily pre-revolution and early socialist development, but ultimately it has to be left behind because it is not compatible with the dialectical materialism outlook. Also for religion to work in our cause we need to adapt it, a great example is the liberation theology synthesis developed by latin american priests.
(2) is simply not the reality, in developed nations the trend is that newer generations are less religious than the last one. The transition to an atheist society is, just like everything in nature, dialectical. Religions will slowly wither away to give place to materialism.
We are mostly in agreement here. Yes, I 100% agree that liberation theology and other grassroots religious movements that incorporate dialectical materialism has to be incorporated at some level, superseding the bourgeoise strains of religions in totality. My username’s namesake is named after the guy who is credited with black liberation theology after all. No disagreement here.
But my argument is that we can’t look at capitalist countries to tell us what will happen in communist countries. Its the wrong dataset. We need to look at folks in AES countries to determine how materialism and religion have interacted post-revolution. China’s Christian population has grown significantly in the last two decades. North Korea has had presbyterian members of the upper cabinet, even having a Christian political working group at one point. Vietnam’s folk religion continues to grow, and over half of Cubans are religious. The theory that religion will eventually disappear post-revolution simply hasn’t happened and, in fact, many people have embraced religion post-revolution.
Maybe it will die off completely in the future, but that hasn’t happened in any AES country to date and that’s really important to note.
There was significant decrease in religiousness in all socialist countries and its a steady trend as long as state remain focused on proper materialist education.
Really, looking at all the current and former AES, i would say that getting rid of religion is easier than getting rid of petty bourgeois sentiment (something that Lenin said it would be the hardest thing to do, and which was also not successful but with some progress in AES).
Sorry, I don’t really have the capacity to write the long response that this deserves but I can add few things that complicate that overall picture.
- Reported religiousness plummets when religion is outlawed but skyrockets when its re-legalized or tolerated again (e.g., China, USSR). This isn’t because a lot of people suddenly convert – proselytizing is almost always still illegal – but rather they feel safe enough to self-report and identify as religion followers on official and unofficial surveys. Religiosity has been resilient in most AES countries. See China and Cuba’s remarkably steady Christian population and folk religion adherents or Buddhism in Vietnam.
- There are many reasons people claim religions including national heritages, family history, spiritual connections to some practice, or genuine superstition. Education can address the latter but struggles with the former. As I recommended below, I’d recommend reading China’s statement on this from 1982.
Agreed on the petty bourgeois sentiment. Religion overlaps with that in huge amounts, of course, so if religion is to be allowed in AES countries, it needs regulation and proper education that both re-educates indigenous populations especially those that were converted from, say, American evangelicals and makes sure cults like Shen Yun don’t pop up – this obviously happens outside of religion too but it’s particularly insidious within it.
