Honestly, child support is dumb. The state should subsidize children. The entire concept of individuals paying child support is to push the onus of social reproduction onto the worker. Obviously, getting rid of child support without state subsidies is even dumber than child support itself.
I’m so glad people here feel this way. In my experience even the most progressive people suddenly turn into some kinda weird traditionalists when it comes to child support. I think there was a thread a while back that got nuked cuz of this (b/c the person suggested that the state take care of children instead of putting the burden on a parent that didn’t want the child). It seems the opinion has changed tho, thank god.
In my experience even the most progressive people suddenly turn into some kinda weird traditionalists when it comes to child support.
Absolutely. It’s because liberal feminism, like all other forms of liberal anti-oppression, can only conceive of “here is a type of person we should be nice to”. There’s nothing systemic or dialectic in any way. So because the proximate target here is male, there’s no self-reflection or external shaming when someone is a regular-ass reactionary. “maybe if they didn’t want to have most of the remaining value of their labor extracted for 18 years non-consensually they shouldn’t have slept around”
The state should make sure that every worker earns enough to support their children on their own (“to each according to their needs”) and there should be free and universal access to child daycare. Combined with free and universal access to family planning, including abortion, this is the only way to achieve true reproductive freedom, where nobody is forced to have children, but nobody who wants to have children has to decide against it for monetary reasons, and where nobody is economically dependent on their partner. All of that is also an absolutely indispensable part of truly emancipating women - as long as these material needs aren’t met, feminism is largely symbolic and can’t fully deliver on what it promises.
BTW, the states that came closest to this ideal all where AES states like the DDR, for obvious reasons. Women cannot be free under capitalism. Pushing the onus of doing reproductive labor for free on women, while simultaneously objectifying us and making us romantic and erotic prizes for men who perform in accordance with capitalist norms, shoehorning all of us into the madonna / wh*re dynamic, has been an economic success story for capitalism, and the liberal feminists’ pushback against that has only led to a softening of these norms that they easily adapted to. Liberal feminism failed because giving women the much needed access to the workplace, the freedom to become workers, isn’t liberating, but enslaving under capitalism. It can only lead to growing the reserve army or labor and ultimately had the outcome that most working class people now need two incomes to support a family.
True feminism begins where capitalism ends.
If this is the case women should be able to blap men on sight. Sexual advances? Your honor it was self defense
Disincentivizing abortion by… cutting off financial support for the child you’re forced to have?
Edit: in case it’s not incredibly clear, “you’re” here refers to the forced mother.
:jesus-christ: I realized the MRAs have a huge issue with child support but there are other solutions.
Abortion would need to be federally protected first, but I think having a legal framework for the inseminator to relinquish parental rights as well might be good. It would have to be done early enough for the carrier to be able to terminate the pregnancy if the inseminator does go this route, and would relieve them of the responsibility of paying for child support as well as all visitation rights. It could be as easy as filling out a form with a notary public, getting both parties’ signatures.
This would be rough without a bit more financial assistance for carriers who then still decide to raise the child alone, but at least they’ll have a heads-up if their partner never intended to pay child support, and never have to worry about a custody battle.
I should say I’ve never had to deal with child support personally, as a parent or child, but I have had friends whose dads never paid and their moms had long given up fighting for it. I also have a friend who became pregnant, decided to keep it under the impression that her partner was sticking around to raise it, and he left her mid-pregnancy, and afaik is not paying child support.
From my perspective, skewed as it may be, I’d like to know as early as possible if the person who gets me pregnant has no intention of providing for it, and I think giving a way to terminate parenthood early on in the pregnancy would encourage those who are going to leave to make that decision quickly enough for the carrier to take that into account when making the decision to keep it, as having a reliable partner would heavily weigh on my decision. This is just an idea to try to both give inseminators an out, and put a timer on that decision, like abortion.
I personally think that everyone should pay child support, for all children. Yes, everyone, even people who never met the child and never will.
totally. it’s the only way to resolve the situation. universal childcare and social support, housing, medical, etc for all. then it doesn’t matter if two people who fucked but can’t get along suck at working out a deal.
the way it’s done currently, where the courts arrest and jail some idiot for not paying his piece is just ludicrous. i don’t blame single parents for using the courts to get what’s theirs at all, but it clearly doesn’t work to benefit anyone in the equation.
child support should be mandatory if you want to be a negelectful parent you can change your name and leave the country the traditional way.
I don’t think people should be able to abandon their responsibilities if they aren’t willing to put in the work
I agree that parents have a responsibility to their child but abortion gives me an option to not become a parent even if I become pregnant and I think there should be an equivalent just on a shorter clock.
Obviously they’d need to pay if they don’t take the parental termination route early enough, but there are situations where someone can have sex and not intend to get pregnant, and so I think it logically follows that someone can have sex while not intending to get someone pregnant. It might be contraceptives failing, a hookup, or any other number of reasons. If the carrier lets the other person know quickly why should there not be a way for them to say “I don’t want to be a parent even if you decide to keep it”?
You said “I don’t think people should be able to abandon their responsibilities if they aren’t willing to put in the work.” Should a pregnant person be allowed to have a medical abortion if they aren’t willing to put in the work or should they have to just tough it out and become a parent anyway? Personally I don’t think anyone should have to give a reason to have an abortion, so even if their reason is they don’t want the work or financial burden of a child that’s more than enough.
I’m not suggesting at all that this be attainable any time other than in the early weeks of pregnancy, but I’m hesitant to suggest an exact week because I’m not trying to write a law as much as rethink what a legal abortion could mean.
There are foreseeable problems I don’t have answers to though, like what if the carrier does not inform their partner of the pregnancy until it is too late to seek parental termination, but then we’re really just in the situation we are now.
If I need to put it in cisheteronormative terms to make it more understandable, I think men should be able to get abortions too, just via paperwork instead of a pill or surgery.
I disagree I think abortion should be legal as the criminalisation just results in a higher death rate for the women getting them and also that no one should be forced to give birth.
Abandonning responsibility to a child is shitty though as it will negatively impact the remaining parent and child.
It’s been talked about for a while: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fathers-financial-abortion_b_1015286 (Huffpost: Should Men Have the Right to ‘Financial Abortions’?) but it hasn’t caught on; I’d speculate its due to people still clinging to traditional norms.
If anyone ever tells you capitalism stymies innovation just remind them it was capitalists who came up with the birth to prison pipeline
