Like, it’s probably more noticeable that you don’t have any romantic or sexual relationships than it would be if you don’t have any true, close, platonic connections. Romantic and sexual relationships have things that are very obvious and for the most part, exclusive to them, such as kissing, making out, sex, etc. Platonic relationships that are true and close are not as visible, they’re more feelings on the inside (not to say that there’s none of those feelings involved with romantic and sexual relationships). If you look exclusively at the activities done with a platonic friendship, it’s not very different from an acquaintanceship, or an activity partner.
I’ve met people who claim they have friends, but they’re just coworkers they talk to a bit, guys they play games with, or guys they see at the sports bar a lot. Not people who actually support each other or any true connection. Now granted, there’s nothing wrong with having those acquaintanceships or activity partners, and it can be argued that they’re necessary for a fulfilling life, but they’re not the same as a true connection or friendship. If you’ve never had that or hadn’t had it in a while, it can be hard to tell what that feels like.
The only way to make these connections is through social skills, which a lot of people lack. They lack social skills, so they don’t make connections, platonic or romantic. Since romantic and sexual connections have more exclusive activities, it’s more easy to notice them than the lack of true friends. So I’m wondering if all this talk about the lack of romance and sex is really just poor social skills.
I think the “dating economy” is an interesting topic that could use more genuine discussion. There’s a lot of noise drowning out the real problems and real solutions, most of that noise is ideological incels making it difficult for non-ideological incels to get systemic support for a problem I’m not really sure I know how to articulate.
And honestly, there’s not really a lot I can personally do about this. Date an ugly person? Date an asshole? Date somebody potentially dangerous?
Poor social skills can sometimes be interpreted as “introvert” and honestly I’d prefer to date someone who is at least a little bit introverted.
Other poor social skills can mean they never ask me out, or that when they try, I either disregard it as offensive (rightly or not), or I don’t detect it, or I reject it and they don’t detect rejection. Or he detects my rejection and decides it’s infinite-immediately-retry time. Which brings up another question, do I have good social skills? I’d like to think I do. Is it safe for me to always express good social skills in return? No, it absolutely is not safe, and it will likely surprise you how common random men act in a threatening manor over a rejection.
Dating apps were really suppose to be the solution to this. Just tell the algorithm you’re willing to move forward with whatever 100 random profiles, then hope >10 feel mutually interested, go on some dates, marry one. Not particularly attractive? that’s fine, maybe you need to spend 2 years on this process instead of the 1 year others may spend on it.
But the bad incentive structures for apps has already started. Now that you can pay for additional features/swipes/etc., the gate keepers are incentivized to keep you chronically single.
Somehow the economics on this are also off balance. Apparently most of these things are a sausage fest. For me, the apps are like a buffet of mostly shitty, but mostly available, men. For them, it’s mostly select all, message all, fire and forget, hope to get at least one reply this month.
I have literally no idea what can be done about this. My primary concern is that single men of questionable attractiveness are being pandered to hard by the far right and used as pawns in an anti-feminist political agenda which will definitely be bad for me later.
The only solutions I know of are “do nothing about them falling out of the dating economy” and “regress human rights for women”.
There are solutions. One of them is social skills classes, and another one is a communist dating app, whatever shape that might take. When we change the goal from making money to human flourishing, good things start to happen.
Under capitalism sure. Under an actual communist organization with proper training and moderation the odds are a little bit better. In any case, it doesn’t need to be a dating app, just a way to help people socialize and find love. China is doing some stuff with dating right now that I think is interesting.
And honestly, there’s not really a lot I can personally do about this. Date an ugly person? Date an asshole? Date somebody potentially dangerous?
Yeah I feel. Dating apps seem to match me with women that I’m not terribly attracted to, or have kids or strange beliefs or some other big thing. This is fine for short-term stuff I guess, but I have very little expectation that apps will land me with the type of cool + hot person I’ve seriously dated before. If short-term relationships were unsatisfying or dangerous for me (like they seem to be for most women) there would be very little point to swiping. I expect this is why a lot of women seem to have made their peace with being single.
Somehow the economics on this are also off balance. Apparently most of these things are a sausage fest. For me, the apps are like a buffet of mostly shitty, but mostly available, men. For them, it’s mostly select all, message all, fire and forget, hope to get at least one reply this month.
I think <50% of matches ignore me, and I go on at least one date with almost any match who responds. I just don’t get many matches to begin with unless I max out the swipes every day, which is fucking exhausting. The sausage fest thing is definitely real though. It’s such a silly problem conceptually: there’s about the same number of men and women, most of them are straight and monogamous, just match up??? Dunno where all the women went but it’s self-reinforcing.
Social skills might be broadly accurate idk. Recently I’ve thought that men are “poorly socialized” or something. We seem to be less likely to build strong social networks than women are (resulting in e.g. widower vs widow death rates) and more likely to send batshit insane tinder messages or do crimes. I think I’m less successful at speed dating events than I am on apps. So maybe it’s not an apps problem, I’m just about as bad at being alive as most others of my gender and the apps make it more obvious.
I think I’m less successful at speed dating events than I am on apps.
how many speed dating events have you gone on? what are they like?
Maybe three? You go around, talk with everyone for five minutes, write their name down if you’re into them and if it’s a match the organizer sends you their number. It’s fun but I don’t write down that many names, few of my names match me, and the one date I went on we just weren’t that into each other.
B. Men are poorly/negatively socialized, and this could mean all sorts of things depending on the individual, but generally: platonic relationships, especially with other men, are less intimate and more competitive, aggression is a common tool for conflict resolution, empathy is less common and exercised less, emotional expression is tightly regulated and healthy emotional expression and vulnerability are suppressed and harshly punished, and men don’t have much skill socializing with others or navigating complex social relations because that’s neither desired nor rewarded in them.
I’ve found based on discussions in various forums that lot of men are aware of this and deeply concerned with it. It’s not something individuals can address in most cases. Being aware of the problem doesn’t really provide a defense from it. “What do people not know about men” threads on Reddit are often full of responses about how men aren’t allowed to express emotion and that they’re even shunned by their otherwise progressive intimate partners in many cases. A common refrain is that after so many attempts to be emotionally vulnerable and communicate their feelings to others just to be rejected, sometimes with serious consequences, a lot of men close up and fortify their emotions to protect themselves from the social violence of not conforming to the expected masculine norms.
I’ve also heard some extremely enlightening discussion from trans men about how the change from being perceived as a woman to being perceived as a man changed how people treated them. I’ve heard men talk about the pain of losing intimate relationships when people began to view them as men, and the confusion and sense of loss that came with that. I think it highlights the degree to which the alienation of men from their emotions has a very strong structural component that often overwhelms any attempts by the individual to overcome it.
just existing as a man requires one to do a gargantuan and heartrending amount of emotional labor 24/7
LOL MRA discourse
traits that most straight women are explicitly NOT looking for in a partner
Oh, come on. They say over and over again they want sensitive caring men who consider their feelings.
Some of my social skills are exceptional, others are very very poor.
which ones are exceptional and which ones are poor? I’ve never seen social skills divided up into different parts
and asking women out ranged from fruitless to frightening.
what happened that was frightening?
I’m not very attractive, nor am I masculine. I am very fit, and I do get along well with people, but I’m a little shy. Some of my social skills are exceptional, others are very very poor. Originally, I didn’t have much success in dating. Almost everyone online my age is just looking for hookups
I’m in a similar position. Don’t know how attractive women would consider me, I’m averagely masculine (at least physically). Pretty fit, can get along well with people but extremely shy. Never had any success dating, but would love hookups if I could get them. Is there really a lot of women online looking for hookups? The women on apps are so not my people / it’s obvious they would never pick me because of my lack of money / no car, no place of my own, etc. Wonder if attitudes are any different in Canada than in USA.
Never had any success dating, but would love hookups if I could get them. Is there really a lot of women online looking for hookups? The women on apps are so not my people / it’s obvious they would never pick me because of my lack of money / no car, no place of my own, etc.
In the US there are and I’m sure you could link up. Mostly on Tinder, there’s a few apps like Feeld that are more specialized. Hookups are kind of shitty though because you may be having sex with someone who doesn’t trust you, a male stranger, and will do things like fake an orgasm rather than risk you getting mad if they say “this isn’t working for me let’s try something else”. Because you’re dangerous. Feels terrible. I don’t think I’ve ever had sex on the first date be a positive experience.
IMO sweet spot is a FWB. Sure there are women who also despair of finding an actual partner on an app but think consistent / safe / maybe fulfilling sex is an achievable goal.
I think some (most?) of these women don’t select “short term fun” because they don’t want to be inundated by harassment messages. And also because slut shaming is still a thing I guess. They’ll have some risqué photos and be looking for “friends”, or they’re only here for the weekend, etc. Slept with some people who seemed much cooler than me. If you want to get laid it is EXTREMELY important to have good photos.
wanting/needing a romantic partner is typical and cool and it’s concerning when frayed social relations prevent such couplings, actually
well, if you’re saying that the phenomena of young people having fewer romantic connections is due to a cultural obsession with getting laid, i’d disagree with that as well.
A lot of leftists who really, really, really should know better make jokes about small penises. I find it illustrative of how far we still have to go for the rhetoric of body positivity and sexual liberation and just not being jerks to people just because they’re different we have to do.
There tends to be a vicious cycles. Guys who are loanly get sad, sad people are never fun to be around, so you don’t wanna hang out with a sad guy. I had had times in my life where I have had to work hard to get out of that cycle. Given hoe isolated we are as Americans it is pretty easy to imagine lots of people getting into unfortunate patterns. Guys get it worse. But then women get it worse because men hunt them. It’s all very unfortunate to he alienated
First ever date with a guy: I texted him I had a good time and wanted to hang out again, he texted me back that it seemed like I didn’t like him because I was monotonous and didn’t talk a lot
I explained that I just get nervous/take time to open up to people, especially cute guys. That might’ve done the charm because we went on several more dates, and the more time I spent with him, the happier I seemed, the better I was at talking, etc. He literally told me how he kept seeing me get more and more confident. He actually ended up being pretty clingy to me, which is part of the reason I ended things. I never would’ve thought someone could like me that much before that though. Exposure therapy is the way
It’s a horrible place to be in when you have serious depression. I have bipolar II and I’ve lost so many friends and acquaintances because their lives go on while I’m stuck in stasis for months with depression, unable to really socialize or participate in their lives. A lot of people just move on.
