So I overheard one person I know telling another person I know that “socialism and communism are evil and the church is very clear on that” (referring to the catholic church). And I’m trying to channel my burning frustration about it into asking what people know about communism and how it has interacted with religion more generally, but also catholicism especially, now or historically. I super hard doubt what this person said was even remotely correct, but I could believe that the catholic church takes a wishy washy fence-sitting stance because it tends to on a number of things.
At any rate, it’s something I should know better because I do have catholic people in my life and so sometimes there may be a need to talk to them about these things through the framing of religion to get past the “communism is purely atheistic” type thinking.
Answers from your own knowledge or resources that go into it are both welcomed. I don’t really know how to approach looking for it on my own in this instance because a lot of western religious material is probably influenced by colonizer thinking, or in the US, influenced by red scare nonsense.
Catholicism has been against Communism for quite some time sadly reading from here
Chilean Catholics seem to be the first Catholics who created a movement towards socialism.
“Evangelio, politica, y socialismos” (Part 1 here, other parts are online) was drafted by the Bishops of Chile in 1971.
In 2016, Pope Francis called “the world economy” (which is capitalism) a “Fundamental terrorism against all of humanity”. But he also criticized Marxism.
I am very intrigued on this topic now so I’ll keep an eye on this thread!
The catholic church was an influential and highly powerful actor in Poland’s counterrevolution. John Paul II is also considered an influential figure by the societal psyche, although nowadays he’s more of a meme than a respected figure. An outdated cult of personality your grandma is subject to.
Himself, the Polish pope was an ardent anti-communist. His wikipedia page, especially the Polish one, is full of citations to that fact. So if the right wing encyclopedia agrees on all that, I think it’s sources are “good enough”
A lot of major right wing and Catholic newspapers in Poland agree also, that the church was very influential with the Pope in the center.
Radio Trójka for example, paints the events of 1989, as “Poland regaining independence”. From what I do not know, but they do say something important.
“Kościół katolicki w Polsce w czasach komunizmu to wyjątek od reguły. To jedyna społeczna instytucja w całym bloku sowieckim, która zachowała niezależność od władzy komunistycznej na taką skalę. To jest ewenement – podsumował historyk Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego prof. Paweł Skibiński.”
“The Catholic Church in Poland under communism is an exception to the rule. It is the only social institution in the entire Soviet bloc that maintained its independence from communist rule on such a scale. This is a phenomenon,” concluded Warsaw University historian Prof. Pawel Skibinski.” - Translated with DeepL, I feel rahter lazy today lol
As you can see, the church could operate rather freely within the country. A huge mistake in my eyes, as Catholicism’s centralist(?) approach to organization is their strength to me, and they used it to restore Capitalism. I will never forgive them, because now I have to live in the mess they’ve made.
Well, shit. So far the responses are making me think I’ve been too easy on the catholic church because of having family who believes in it fervently. Not that I haven’t had any criticisms, but I may have been viewing it with too much “good faith” (incidental use of the word faith there, not meant in the religious way, tho I guess it kinda works in that meaning too :P).
If you want some hope, look up Liberation Theology. It’s cool because John Paul II officially denounced it.
Not sure if this directly answers your question, but the Liberation theology tradition was started by a Catholic priest. https://theconversation.com/after-50-years-liberation-theology-is-still-reshaping-catholicism-and-politics-but-what-is-it-186804
One dimension of liberation theology has to do with analyzing the sources of social inequality. Its approach treats poverty as a complex phenomenon that cannot be reduced to economics, or separated from politics, because it intersects with other forms of oppression, such as sexism and racism. Poverty, Gutiérrez and other theologians have argued, is an evil – something they believe God does not want – for it can bring suffering and early death. In this view, poverty is not a natural condition; it is a violence that some communities inflict upon others.
The key principle of liberation theology is “the preferential option for the poor.” This is a commitment to prioritize the material needs of the poor, as well as their knowledge, experience and spirituality. This principle is grounded in the conviction that God is not neutral, but is always on the side of those who most struggle to live.
There were some Jews in the early Soviet Union who harmonized Judaism with scientific socialism, and the folk who run the Minyan have affectionately described communism as ‘Jewish’, though my own familiarity with Jewish scripture, traditions and ancient history is too meager to explain why. Perhaps @AYJANIBRAHIMOV@lemmygrad.ml can elaborate if he feels comfortable doing so, but I do know this:
In their propaganda the stridently secular early Jewish labor leaders used religious imagery to inspire the workers—passages from the Prophets on social justice, references to modern day Pharoahs and to the Israelites’ liberation from Egyptian slavery.
Now, since historically organized religions have frequently worked on behalf of oppressors, I unfortunately cannot blame the Bolsheviki too much for cracking down on them (which undoubtedly resulted in some collateral damage); this is largely why so many religious establishments loathe communism. Even today there are more than a few communists and other socialists who are antitheists, but I think that that is the wrong attitude to have, since religion (including organized religion) does not need to be reactionary. I would much prefer that organised religions be transformed rather than destroyed.
I hope that this response helps you. Perhaps you know a few Catholics who cherish Judaism and would be curious to learn how it is compatible with communism.
Excellent, I share similar views, comrade. The fact that very easily religion “suddenly” became a phenomenon on post-Soviet countries is a testament that even with constant materialist anti-religion propaganda, you’ll just give people reason to be bitter with your regime, even if you give them all they need. Because religion is a matter of identity, something fostered through generations of family lineage, and in summary acquired socially. We can’t change this through intervention, we can only help the political struggle against bourgeois ideology and exploitation in religion
