DC last night:
- https://twitter.com/loran076/status/1323907767887867904?s=19
- https://twitter.com/FranceNews24/status/1323917050369245185?s=19
- https://hexbear.net/post/47055
it’s more likely in the next few days that the fash will take the streets, especially as trump announces how he will contest the election. after all, chaos is his best bet for getting the powers that be to allow him to retain power without a fight. so don’t fucking tell people to stay home. it’s absolutely critical that everyone pays attention to what’s happening in their own backyards and steps up to engage in appropriate community defense.
the election is just a stage. stop confusing it with the conditions that compel people to act.
not dyin’ for biden. sorry but not really
Any Marxist going out in defense against fascism this month should make it crystal clear that they don’t support Biden or Trump and should instead agitate by making demands in defense of democracy in a more abstract sense, and calling on voters to continue organizing for the shit they actually want (M4A, GND, accountability against police, etc.) after the election is decided.
I agree in principle but disagree on the specifics. this is a damn good time to agitate AGAINST the false democracy, to point out the ways in which it robs people of meaningful choice and agency in their own lives, and to advocate for a new system. this isn’t the time for milquetoast socdemism.
My phrasing might have erred a bit too close to opportunism. Given that the US left is still extremely scattered and tiny relative to the working class as a whole (even if the left is growing more quickly now), we should strike a careful balance between crafting a message that will reach the DSA-adjacent progressive libs and anarchists and other newly radicalizing layers - who might still be terrified to death of Trump while only somewhat scared of business-as-usual neoliberals like Biden - while retaining a hard line against the two bourgie-funded parties, putting forth a clearly articulated alternative and a path to socialist revolution from existing conditions. This means condemning Trump’s obvious contempt for democracy while reminding them of the Dem ratfuckery during the primaries, and arguing for the necessity to organize and build an independent workers’ party - not just the smaller revolutionary party, but a mass party as well.
If that last part sounds like succdem shit, unfortunately it’s still a necessary transitional step in between our current situation - one in which there’s no real political representation for the working class at all - to one in which we eventually have a large enough revolutionary core within a larger grassroots independent left united front/mass movement to actually carry out the tasks of revolution. The tasks of the 1st and 2nd internationals were prerequisites for the tasks of the 3rd - and in terms of organization we’re still arguably on square one here in the US.
if there are fascists trying to start shit in your town, you’re going to stay home because someone might think you’re dying for biden? what a bad fucking take.
Imma let libs take the lead on this one. I sure as shit ain’t gettin my head blown off by a chud just for Biden to cave like every lib before him.
Right on! Too often have Communists been dying on the front lines to save the cowardly libs from their own folly. It’s high time to fight smart, let the libs be the cannon fodder this time!
protecting your community has nothing to do with biden… god damn, there’s more to politics than the fucking election.
No one ever said we should abandon community defense. The point is that we aren’t going to war for Joe Biden.
no one is suggesting going to war for joe biden… but there were fascists out last night and there likely will be again tonight, tomorrow night, etc., and antifascists should be prepared to fight them.
leave biden vs trump to the libs and chuds, there’s a more important fight directly at hand.
Why put your body on the line for liberals? America is an evil empire, let it burn and protect yourself and your comrades, don’t waste a breath on the liberals.
Honestly you don’t have to stand outside to defend your neighborhood. Most likely if the fascists see just a bunch of houses, unless they know that a bunch of antifascists live there they’re going to keep on rolling past elsewhere in their trucks while hooting and hollering. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t think you shouldn’t have contact with a self defense group if they do stop at someone’s house or neighborhood. But just standing around does little, at most it tells the fascists where to find you and where to find the confrontation they’re craving.
America is not Germany of the 1930s. There is no large communist movement. There is no reason to step up and go to war with the fascists and let the feds pin all the blame on the left. Let the fascists do stupid shit to liberals and get a state response. Why the fuck should communists allow the media to both sides the blame? Let them do ignorant shit and get an FBI gunship up their ass. Why would I want to get between two enemies of mine about to fight and let them both turn to fight me instead? Tactically ridiculous.
Something you people don’t understand. Fascism arises out of material conditions. A bunch of fucking yahoos running around with guns and explosives shooting is not going to result in hard fascism arriving. It’s going to result in the FBI murking their ass with military hardware and these fascists having to resort to more subtle insurgent terroristic attacks or go home. Plain and simple for you: Trump is not favored overwhelmingly by the American national bourgeoisie. They see Biden as equally or more palatable as he is stable and probably not so bad at imperialism. Given this they are not going to support any kind of in the streets fascist coup nor will US government institutions. The US military is going to sit on the sidelines and the cops and FBI are going to grab anyone who steps out of line with a strong preference for grabbing any anti-capitalists they can get their hands on. So don’t be there. Leave them to either have to blatantly ignore the fascists and further deepen anger of the Democratic base at the enforcer class (and bring them closer to our side) or to engage with them.
I honestly just don’t think you guys have the numbers. I literally said it on my last post but fighting for pride gets you killed. Good when you have a million foot soldiers and life is throwaway. Not when every single person, every mind, every bit of energy is a precious resource.
Tactically it’s a bad move. Organise and strike with overwhelming force at the heart of their groups then scatter before they can make sense of it. Their numbers count for nothing against organisation. Demoralise them, taunt them with fear and paranoia. Head on confrontation will only end with such a huge loss for the left. You’d be giving them justification for a slaughter and Liberals would just make you the scapegoat for their own political convenience.
you guys
that you think we’re separate says everything…
fighting for pride
I’ve already responded with analysis of the situation elsewhere in this thread. I suggest reading that if you think this is about pride.
Organise and strike with overwhelming force at the heart of their groups
no shit. and sometimes they try things before you’ve successfully dismantled their groups. if you allow them to beat people with fists, they’ll come back with guns next time. let me tell you which I’d rather deal with.
I’m not American. I appreciate the points you’ve made. It comes down to whether you think you’re fighting as resistance or against an invasion. I think what many here are perceptive too, as bad as it is too admit, is that it’s already to late to fight on certain terms. I honestly don’t know the answer to that.
