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Dore punches left to get views for his show. There are a million valid reasons to criticize AOC but calling her a Pelosi sellout for not performing your preferred brand of outrage is nonsense.
calling her a Pelosi sellout for not performing your preferred brand of outrage is nonsense.
AOC specifically said that progressives need to “continue to pressure the Democrats after the election.” She has also said that progressives need to force a vote on M4A.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held. It is a prime opportunity to do follow through on those promises.
Progressives won’t have leverage again for awhile. They might as well get every house member on the record for M4A. That would help a lot of progressive challenges in 2022.
From what I’ve seen from Dore, he’s pissed and wants to hold AOC accountable over this. How is that “performative outrage?”
I feel like I’m watching Liberals process Obama’s first term all over again in this thread.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held. It is a prime opportunity to do follow through on those promises.
Progressives won’t have leverage again for awhile.
Do they actually have leverage now? That is, can the AOC-wing of the party keep Pelosi from being elected speaker if they force the issue, or do they still have too few votes?
If they don’t have the votes to boot Pelosi, we’re just talking about something performative.
Depending on the results in the last two seats, they would need 5-7 votes.
I really genuinely would not give a shit about this if it was just performative. But they have a real opportunity to express political power here, and there is no will.
You can use the leverage on something that gives you some permanent form of leverage. An M4A vote is not that since we all know what the results of that vote would be. Voting for Pelosi in exchange for this vote would be letting her off easy, it is letting her appease the left without anything at all changing
I don’t disagree. My biggest issue is that no conversation about leveraging their votes is happening in the progressive caucus.
They can express political power for the first time, and there is no will.
Can you find a source on that quote? She went after Biden’s transition team in August saying that adopting GOP talking points is wrong. https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1296480664561291264?s=20
I misspoke there. It was that they need to “continue to push Democrats after the election.” I did not mean to imply anything about the election cycle. I’ll update my comment.
The progressives will likely have the votes to prevent Pelosi from getting the speakership. It is insane that they are not making a public show of that leverage. The centrist Democrats do it every cycle.
It is very concerning that they not making any use of that leverage. The progressive project would gain a lot of popularity by both undermining Pelosi - who is incredibly unpopular - and fighting for the most popular legislation in the country, which was also a campaign promise.
People have been doing political work on the ground for years. AOC et al are only in office because of mass organizing to support them. Now, they have an opportunity to express political power, and there is no will. It really does give me Obama vibes.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held.
Shot at the Queen, you best not miss.
If AOC’s caucus can’t rally the votes, they’ve got a Speaker who will have traded away their committee assignments and legislative favors to someone else - almost guaranteed to be hostile to their left-wing interests.
This is only a good idea if AOC had a superior pick to Pelosi with a plurality of support in the party. And - win or lose - this coalition could leverage the median House Dem to compel better policy out of the House. I don’t think they have that. I think folks like James Clyburn and Richard Neal and Adam Schiff have the lion’s share of leverage.
From what I’ve seen from Dore, he’s pissed and wants to hold AOC accountable over this.
Just like every other media circus freak, he wants to attach his name to AOC’s because she’s high profile and he’s not. Dan fucking Crenshaw does this all the time. Fling shit at AOC and see what sticks.
I feel like I’m watching Liberals process Obama’s first term all over again in this thread.
Always fighting the last war. AOC isn’t Obama. I know this because I don’t see her heels propped up on the Resolute Desk.
This is only a good idea if AOC had a superior pick to Pelosi with a plurality of support in the party
Why? How does a plurality in the Party help anything? Pelosi needs their votes to be Speaker. They can require that Pelosi make a public concession to their wing of the party. After this moment passes, Pelosi has no reason to listen to them again until 2022.
Just like every other media circus freak, he wants to attach his name to AOC’s because she’s high profile and he’s not. Dan fucking Crenshaw does this all the time. Fling shit at AOC and see what sticks.
The fact that Democratic Entryists see “following up on campaign promises” as “flinging shit” is why nothing will ever happen from this strategy.
Always fighting the last war. AOC isn’t Obama. I know this because I don’t see her heels propped up on the Resolute Desk.
I do not care about signaling. This sounds like Libs defending Obama because he does not golf every weekend.
Here is the similarity between AOC and Obama: they both refuse to use their leverage - mass public support and opportunities of political power - to demand concessions in the public square. They are only interested in what’s “achievable” in back-door deals.
This moment is the best leverage they will have in a very long time. It is incredibly lucky that the small progressive wing can swing the Speaker vote. At their current trajectory, progressives are decades away from controlling the House. We do not have that kind of time. They need to use this opportunity to its fullest.
Instead, they want us to believe they are working really really hard in back-door deals. Democratic careerists would much rather just say they are fighting for you behind closed doors.
It is such a fall from grace to see AOC go from occupying Pelosi’s office with climate protestors in 2018. If there was ever a time to bring out your supporters for leverage, it is now. But back in 2018, they were harmless. It made for a good photo-op.
I imagine you supported that move by AOC. To go from that, to “shoot at the Queen, you best not miss” is embarrassing. She missed in 2018, and lost nothing.
Absolute Obama lib shit.
Exactly. Remember the GOP under Obama? They “symbolically voted” to repeal Obamacare 43 times. When they actually had the power to do it they shriveled up and caved. Remember when the Senate had a “symbolic vote” on the Green New Deal just last year? I bet half the folks in this thread don’t because literally who cares about it.
If this site is pro Jimmy Dore I am outsskie
The party line on Dore remains in contention.
I fully anticipate a Trotskyist split on the issue by the end of the month.
Jimmy just seems like a crock tbh, willing to work with Tucker Carlson or at least give him props, and support Tulsi over Bernie because one will go on his show.
Jimmy just likes people who sound angry and are vaguely talking about the issues he cares about (and it doesn’t hurt if they are willing to go on his show or give him a plug). That’s why he can can sing the praises of Tucker Carlson even tho he is just being a fascist coopting populist grievances for fascists ends. Or why he supports Tulsi over Bernie.
Tulsi was the only one willing to call out the neoliberal ghouls (Kamala, Buttigieg) during the primary while Bernie did nothing to challenge them!
Other than, you know, running a campaign that vastly outperformed both of them. And running on policies they refuse to back is challenging them, even if it’s not doing some WWE politics own on them at a debate.
Bernie’s campaign was so poorly run that even a mild scandal manufactured by the Warren team managed to have it shook.
Warren’s snake moment happened a week or two before Iowa. It “shook” the Bernie campaign so hard it went out and won 3 or 4 states in a row.
The establishment was equally inept and only succeeded in coming together and push him out because of how poor his campaign was run.
Yeah, a popular two-term president working behind the scenes get every centrist candidate (but not Warren) to drop out and immediately endorse Biden screams “inept.”
Other than, you know, running a campaign that vastly outperformed both of them
Bernie stayed silent about Assange persecution and paid some lip service to Russiagate hysteria
we can debate whether forcing a vote on M4A would be a meaningful accomplishment or not but from what i’ve seen jimmy dore doesn’t really seem like the place to turn for thoughtful political strategy
The mother fucker damn near cums his pants every time he talked about Tulsi, like she was really gonna fight for M4A. Dore is an opportunistic “comedian” and legit doesn’t matter if he says something right every now and then, he is really a shit person to listen to. I also find it very funny how many chuds like him.
Even still, anyone with half a brain knew she wasn’t going to fight for the working class and marginalized. Look what she just did that TERF bill she put forward. Idk how someone like Jimmy could think that Tulsi is at all a so called “progressive.” She is the opposite in fact, she has tons of incredibly regressive stances and is incredibly apologetic to US imperialism
I can’t help but be suspicious that she’s Obama 2.0. As in, posing as someone who will shake up the status quo, while cynically planning to do nothing. And there’s also that circumstantial stuff about her getting a job with Ted Kennedy’s foreign affairs office at age 18, and working in Niger on a Gates Foundation grant right before the coup.
Maybe I’ve been paying too much attention to the excerpts from Obama’s book. I’ll happily admit I’m wrong if she helps bring about the revolution.
(edit: Niger, not Nigeria, sorry. And see the links the replies)
edit: yeah, I fucked up and said Nigeria instead of Niger, sorry
I get the suspicion because the left needs to be wary of everyone but like…her background and actions so far are absolutely nothing like Obama.
AOC is a politician born and bred from the working class who openly identifies as a socialist. Whether you think she’s a socialist or a socdem is up to you, but the fact that she’s outwardly IDing as a socialist in a party that despises socialists is already more courageous than anything Obama did. AOC was a bartender, Obama was a Harvard-educated lawyer. Obama dissolved his organizing apparatus the minute he touched political power. AOC does boots-on-the-ground mutual aid work in her district. Obama never made any major moves against the establishment in his career. AOC endorsed Bernie Sanders at the lowest point in his campaign, right after he had the heart attack. If she wanted to sell the left out, she would have backed Warren who was angling hard for her vote. Despite what some of the terminally online say, she doesn’t punch left and it’s not like she’s a careerist profiting off her office. She literally called him and gave the endorsement when we weren’t even sure if Bernie was going to be healthy enough to campaign. AOC openly supports defunding the police and uses that slogan. Obama tone polices people who say it. I can guarantee you she has absolutely no future in the Democratic establishment and she knows it.
There are plenty of places to criticize AOC for. Taking photo ops with the NYPD? Wrong. Joining the Tara Reade coverup crew? Wrong. Voting for a military budget? Wrong. And if you want to withhold your support of her because of any of those things, that’s fine. But the idea that she’s a careerist like Obama or a sellout like Elizabeth Warren has very little evidence behind it. She is pretty clearly an enemy of the Dem establishment. If I’m wrong and she turns out to be a grifter, then fine, I fell for it. But she’s clearly in the same vein as Bernie - she isn’t controlled opposition, she’s insufficient opposition. If you believe in electoral politics at all, you want more of her in Congress.
AOC’s policy positions are much, much more concrete than anything Obama ever proposed. Obama was all about nice sounding pabulum, not firm policy. AOC is at the very least an honestly SocDem SocDem, which would still be a huge improvement. No, she’s not going to bring about the revolution, that’s silly, she’s not even a Marxist. But she isn’t Obama either.
being critical of AOC is good but like i honestly dont think she wouldve endorsed bernie if she was obama 2.0.
She’s a SocDem. This is what they do.
Obama was always very pro-establishment. They just ran the perfect campaign for him in 2008 cause he was an outsider and they pushed things with progressive grass roots organizations. As soon as he won, they dismantled all of that. He even said so on his campaign that he wasn’t really focused on ending the war in Afghanistan. There was just little focus on that and after 8 years of Bush, people wanted something different.
Is she a radical Marxist who is going to push a revolution? Of course not. SocDems aren’t that. She is to the left of the establishment Democrats who are pushed so far to the right that they would be conservatives in any other country.
So many people on the left really want a savior. That’s how Bernie was treated and it’s how AOC is treated. Fact remains, we still got a lot of work to do.
working in Nigeria on a Gates Foundation grant right before the coup.
wait, what?
edit: yeah, I fucked up and said Nigeria instead of Niger, sorry
I find it…peculiar, that she was a pre-med student thru sophomore year & still graduated in 4 yrs w a completely different degree
This isn’t even remotely suspicious. Probably half of my friends from undergrad switched degrees at some point and graduated in four years, and tons of them switched from pre-med (a notoriously difficult program).
and even more peculiar that she worked in Ted Kennedy’s (spook family) foreign affairs office (in Massachusetts) at just 18 years old w no college
My sister in law worked in a congressperson’s office at 18 and she’s far from a CIA agent. If you’re interested in politics and do well in school, there’s a decent chance you can land a summer internship like this. That thread seems like a stretch.
