Permanently Deleted
calling her a Pelosi sellout for not performing your preferred brand of outrage is nonsense.
AOC specifically said that progressives need to “continue to pressure the Democrats after the election.” She has also said that progressives need to force a vote on M4A.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held. It is a prime opportunity to do follow through on those promises.
Progressives won’t have leverage again for awhile. They might as well get every house member on the record for M4A. That would help a lot of progressive challenges in 2022.
From what I’ve seen from Dore, he’s pissed and wants to hold AOC accountable over this. How is that “performative outrage?”
I feel like I’m watching Liberals process Obama’s first term all over again in this thread.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held. It is a prime opportunity to do follow through on those promises.
Progressives won’t have leverage again for awhile.
Do they actually have leverage now? That is, can the AOC-wing of the party keep Pelosi from being elected speaker if they force the issue, or do they still have too few votes?
If they don’t have the votes to boot Pelosi, we’re just talking about something performative.
Depending on the results in the last two seats, they would need 5-7 votes.
I really genuinely would not give a shit about this if it was just performative. But they have a real opportunity to express political power here, and there is no will.
I’m assuming Democrats lost 11 net seats, which would bring them down to a 224-211 majority. It looks like all Representatives vote between the nominees each party puts forth.
So I think they would need 7 (to make the vote 218-217 in favor of Republicans), and we’d have a Republican speaker. It looks possible, but I don’t think it’s a clear-cut decision. They don’t really have anything to win (Medicare for All isn’t passing the Senate, especially if the Georgia races go red) and Biden said he’d veto it if it gets to him – that’s all assuming it passes the House, which it still probably wouldn’t. As for what there is to lose, it’s a pretty bad look (to put it mildly) to vote with Republicans, I don’t know what damage a Republican speaker could do, and if they successfully force the vote but it doesn’t even pass the House that would be used as “too radical for America” bait for years.
Can you find a source on that quote? She went after Biden’s transition team in August saying that adopting GOP talking points is wrong. https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1296480664561291264?s=20
I misspoke there. It was that they need to “continue to push Democrats after the election.” I did not mean to imply anything about the election cycle. I’ll update my comment.
The progressives will likely have the votes to prevent Pelosi from getting the speakership. It is insane that they are not making a public show of that leverage. The centrist Democrats do it every cycle.
It is very concerning that they not making any use of that leverage. The progressive project would gain a lot of popularity by both undermining Pelosi - who is incredibly unpopular - and fighting for the most popular legislation in the country, which was also a campaign promise.
People have been doing political work on the ground for years. AOC et al are only in office because of mass organizing to support them. Now, they have an opportunity to express political power, and there is no will. It really does give me Obama vibes.
That’s fair, but we should remember that the AOC wing of the party did get a pledge from Pelosi that she would step down in 2022. I get that it could be too little too late, but that’s already more than the Obama wing of the party ever tried to do. And AOC’s replies to Justin Jackson/Kyle Kulinski’s twitter - that she’s working on things such as getting a M4A opponent off the major committee or forcing votes on things the Democrats have promised or rolling back PAYGO. That doesn’t give me an “Obama vibe” as much as a “it’s the best we can do with only 5 or so comrades in Congress right now” vibe.
Threaten to vote against Pelosi unless a M4A vote is held.
Shot at the Queen, you best not miss.
If AOC’s caucus can’t rally the votes, they’ve got a Speaker who will have traded away their committee assignments and legislative favors to someone else - almost guaranteed to be hostile to their left-wing interests.
This is only a good idea if AOC had a superior pick to Pelosi with a plurality of support in the party. And - win or lose - this coalition could leverage the median House Dem to compel better policy out of the House. I don’t think they have that. I think folks like James Clyburn and Richard Neal and Adam Schiff have the lion’s share of leverage.
From what I’ve seen from Dore, he’s pissed and wants to hold AOC accountable over this.
Just like every other media circus freak, he wants to attach his name to AOC’s because she’s high profile and he’s not. Dan fucking Crenshaw does this all the time. Fling shit at AOC and see what sticks.
I feel like I’m watching Liberals process Obama’s first term all over again in this thread.
Always fighting the last war. AOC isn’t Obama. I know this because I don’t see her heels propped up on the Resolute Desk.
This is only a good idea if AOC had a superior pick to Pelosi with a plurality of support in the party
Why? How does a plurality in the Party help anything? Pelosi needs their votes to be Speaker. They can require that Pelosi make a public concession to their wing of the party. After this moment passes, Pelosi has no reason to listen to them again until 2022.
Just like every other media circus freak, he wants to attach his name to AOC’s because she’s high profile and he’s not. Dan fucking Crenshaw does this all the time. Fling shit at AOC and see what sticks.
The fact that Democratic Entryists see “following up on campaign promises” as “flinging shit” is why nothing will ever happen from this strategy.
Always fighting the last war. AOC isn’t Obama. I know this because I don’t see her heels propped up on the Resolute Desk.
I do not care about signaling. This sounds like Libs defending Obama because he does not golf every weekend.
Here is the similarity between AOC and Obama: they both refuse to use their leverage - mass public support and opportunities of political power - to demand concessions in the public square. They are only interested in what’s “achievable” in back-door deals.
This moment is the best leverage they will have in a very long time. It is incredibly lucky that the small progressive wing can swing the Speaker vote. At their current trajectory, progressives are decades away from controlling the House. We do not have that kind of time. They need to use this opportunity to its fullest.
Instead, they want us to believe they are working really really hard in back-door deals. Democratic careerists would much rather just say they are fighting for you behind closed doors.
It is such a fall from grace to see AOC go from occupying Pelosi’s office with climate protestors in 2018. If there was ever a time to bring out your supporters for leverage, it is now. But back in 2018, they were harmless. It made for a good photo-op.
I imagine you supported that move by AOC. To go from that, to “shoot at the Queen, you best not miss” is embarrassing. She missed in 2018, and lost nothing.
Absolute Obama lib shit.
Why?
Because Pelosi isn’t the final boss in a video game and beating her doesn’t mean you win.
I do not care about signaling.
Going to do a Communism, but without communicating intent or efficacy to the proletariat. This vanguard can’t fail.
Here is the similarity between AOC and Obama: they both refuse to use their leverage
Obama routinely used his leverage… to benefit institutions of capital and the police state. Let me know when AOC is campaigning for Joe Lieberman, re-upping Robert Gates to the Pentagon, and nixing a basketball walkout in protest of police brutality.
It is such a fall from grace to see AOC go from occupying Pelosi’s office with climate protestors in 2018.
Cortez is currently backing a Ro Khanna’s state-based M4A legislation, a law that has a much better chance of passing than blanket national M4A. Picking a fight with Pelosi right now would undermine that effort, given that both she and incoming HHS secretary Xavier Becerra support it.
You can use the leverage on something that gives you some permanent form of leverage. An M4A vote is not that since we all know what the results of that vote would be. Voting for Pelosi in exchange for this vote would be letting her off easy, it is letting her appease the left without anything at all changing
I don’t disagree. My biggest issue is that no conversation about leveraging their votes is happening in the progressive caucus.
They can express political power for the first time, and there is no will.
My biggest issue is that no conversation about leveraging their votes is happening in the progressive caucus.
That’s because it’s all taking place next month. The Dems have only a 4 person majority so I’m sure various groups within the Dems are thinking about how to make the most of this situation. It’s Pelosi’s last term as Speaker and she probably would want to avoid conflict at the beginning of Biden’s term
