You’re giving patsocs a lot of credit when their ‘current’ has not produced anything in the 5-6 years it’s been tried beyond making a few streamers rich and putting themselves against all actual Marxists (never a good sign). They have no actual plans to make America socialist, like they claim, because any formulated plan would expose that this is a dead-end that’s only good for grifting.

They had the “CPUSA 2036” slogan for a while, which was about infiltrating the CPUSA and winning the 2036 election, and they tried that, got found out and blacklisted, and now they pretend it was never about that and they’ve stopped talking about it.

You’re assuming they are trying novel techniques, but they’re just tailists. It’s been tried before, and it always ends with a Hitler in power.

The people they are trying to tail are not interested in being friends with China, stopping the genocide in Palestine, or being pro-labor. What they are is by and large the petite bourgeoisie, and to teach that segment ‘Marxism’, they need to water it down and purposely limit it. “MAGAcommunists”, who changed their name after they started hating the label ‘patriotic socialist’ which they picked for themselves (they also tried “Mecha tankies” for a while lol), are starting to say socialism is conservative (they don’t expand on what that means) and that marxism is “pro small business”.

If I “introduced” you to math by saying 2+2 can be equal to 5, and you didn’t have the knowledge to disprove it, and I then continued teaching you bad math, nobody would be saying “well at least he’s introducing people to math!”. No. I would be teaching bad math, and I would be a terrible teacher that should be stopped before I do more damage. So why, when people teach bad theory, do we let them do it because “at least they’re teaching people”? I’m not a monkey that reacts to the buzzwords, much to the dismay of patsocs. You have to actually give me a sound argument, and not just write “Based!” in the margin of a Lenin book for the instagram picture.

They’ve tried “reaching out” a couple times, their big plan was to send Haz to interview some MAGA protestors once or twice. He gave them softball questions like “do you think the establishment is working against the common worker?” and got ecstatic when they said yes. He might have been thinking about socialism, but I can guarantee you they were thinking about Trump. They were also small business owners and considered themselves workers, obviously. Obviously he couldn’t namedrop socialism to them or he would have got his ass beat, because for all their posturing and spitting, they have not yet reached out to any MAGA. They claim they did, but they did not. All they got is 14 year olds edgelords who will grow out of it, I assume, in a few years.

They are enemies of Marxism and Marxists and it’s time to proclaim it. Communists like to pass around Anarchism or Socialism from Stalin, where he says “Anarchists are the real enemies of marxists” (back in 1905 so before fascism), but then when it comes to patsocs we contort ourselves into shapes trying to justify their existence. We don’t have to work with them. They have to prove they have something of value to bring, and I don’t see that because they spend most of their time trying to convince real marxists that magacommunism totally works, and if you disagree, they start insulting and dogpiling you. You’re either with them or against them.

Like who else is actually saying we need to “win over” the maga? If there is civil war it’s gonna be communists and maybe a few others against the magas. The first thing the magas are gonna do is organize lynch mobs as soon as they get the go ahead. There was civil war in Russia, there was civil war in China, there was civil war in Vietnam, there was civil war in Korea, but these clowns think that in the heart of empire, in the number one imperial power in the world, they can avoid civil war if they wish for it hard enough.

I got bad news then, you’re gonna have to pick up a rifle and shoot the magas you want to win over if there is ever a revolution. Because I can assure you magacoms would sooner join them and abandon any pretense of being marxists than raise a rifle against them lol.

Who cares about their follower count, when they are simply unable to build anything – because that’s not the point of patsocism. The point is to get a few feds into positions of legitimacy. How do you think Hinkle got to 2 million followers in less than 5 years (actually less than 1 because he was boosted up there after October 7)? The official account of the state of ‘Israel’ quote tweeted him. Why would the glorified US military base in West Asia do that not once but twice, garnering him tons of new followers each time? Like when any real marxist starts getting too popular, it should raise red flags, not garner amazement. He has fed written all over him and has completely stopped talking about marxism, instead now stealing tweets and reposting them on his account. That’s his amount of praxis.

Midwestern Marx has always been patsoc, they’re just now dropping the mask because Laroucheism is finally paying off for them. First, Edward Ligger is wrong about Lenin on the Black Hundreds. Lenin was not saying to disrupt their meetings to recruit workers there, he was saying to fucking kill them. Yes, that’s what Lenin wrote black on white. Our guy was leading the revolution and civil war just a few years later and they’re trying to lionize him into a peace-loving, “reaching across the aisle” type of figure. What Lenin wrote at the beginning of The state and the revolution has come full circle and against him now.

Every time this brain-damaged wrestler opens his mouth he gets clowned on and I’m not sure how you can have been following what he’s been saying and start defending his position, while at the same time not having seen any of the criticism he gets, including right in the top comments of the linked tweet.

and it likely wouldn’t be relevant to non-white people who have national interests of their own to organize around

What do you think they’re gonna do to non-white people if they ever get into power?

Aside from MAGA communists generally seeming like transphobes, misogynists, and potentially racists, (something all the other electoral groups in the US also are),

Yes, which is why the answer to the US Question is decolonization. There will always remain transphobia, misogyny and racism in a settler-colonial state. But patsocs are not advocating for decolonization, they don’t even dare use the word. And the reason communism is such a shitshow in the US is exactly because communist parties did not want to grapple with this fact, that all communist parties will decolonize, that their prime directive is to put the Indigenous nations in power and not lead in their stead, and this goes all the way back to all the “working class stories” we’ve been told about the US, all the “good communist parties” there, all the “grassroots” movements, none of them advocated for decolonization because it would jeopardize their power and even livelihood. This is their contradiction, to admit to decol being necessary would be admitting to your party dissolving eventually. But regardless of the history of communism in the US, patsocs are not doing anything new. You look far enough into the CPUSA’s history (which is not that far, it’s around 100 years old) and you see proto-patsocs there as well.

You’re correct that we shouldn’t ignore patsocism. We should fight against it. I expect their movement will slowly dwindle though, but never fully go away. Laroucheism is not new (I mean, Larouche himself was active not that long ago) and Laroucheism is a fed op, so it’s not going away any time soon.

Did you read what he wrote in the linked thread?

Yes. Prolewiki has too. What Eddie Liger Smith is arguing is that we don’t convince them of their reactionary ways but rather adopt them. That is what ‘reaching out’ means. We do not ‘reach out’. We convince them of their reactionary views. Smith doesn’t seem to agree with this proposition.

Therefore, would it be more practical to steer these american labor aristocracy workers towards a movement like MAGA communism?

Somehow you gotten everything correct and then you decide to say this. No. MAGA Communism is a reactionary movement. By bringing people towards MAGA Communism, you’re introducing reactionary sentiment. MAGA Communists are not progressive in any sense. By stating it is the case that we should convince people of a backward, reactionary sentiment, of which imposing “patriotism” to the reactionary masses, means that you are advocating for reactionary sentiment. Please read up Prolewiki’s article on Patriotic Socialism.

Aside from MAGA communists generally seeming like transphobes, misogynists, and potentially racists

Then why support them to begin with? Do you not care for trans people (as I am), or feminists (as I am), or black people? All of whom are oppressed because Conservatives don’t want us to have rights?

When it comes to anti-imperialist nations, we tend to accept their social conservatism under critical support because we understand that they are the product of their conditions, but when we see anti-imperialist Americans who have similar social conservative views, we reject them entirely for it and call them fascists and feds.

Their social-conservatism is a result of domestic action. We should still, and rightfully, criticise those nations for being anti-LGBT. Critical support does not mean ignorance. It means criticising the nation (for being capitalist, anti-LGBT) and supporting its international actions for anti-imperialism. This does not apply to Conservatives because the US imposed cultural imperialism onto the third world, thus making the third world less likely to adopt LGBT ideas because it is seen as a “western” thing. You’re comparing two different things. In either case, we should combat the anti-LGBT sentiment.

(Hinkle has gained 2 million followers since 2019, PSL has almost 100k since 2009).

Follower counts mean nothing. Just because more people follow it doesn’t mean it’s good. PSL has actually been doing stuff, what has Hinkle been doing? Pretty much nothing. He tried to communicate with the third world but it results in failure because no one cares about him.

If the option is between status quo and MAGA communism, because americans are not willing or interested in a full bolshevik style revolution, isn’t MAGA communism better for the rest of the world?

No. This is no different from lesser-evilism. MAGA Communists don’t even have their own party. They just tell you to vote Donald Trump because he is supposedly “anti-imperialist”.

Is there potential that, like DSA and Bernie, this group could be a wide funnel into the left that could result in some sincere right wing conversions?

I’ve seen this argument before and it can be debunked by stating it can have the opposite reaction. Sure it may bring new “leftists”, but it would also dissuade people from “leftism”. Hence why I don’t support the DSA or Bernie, especially given both of them support imperialism.

Beyond that, wouldn’t it be better for folks like us to be engaging and disagreeing openly with MAGA communists to provide the people attracted to their ideas

Yes. We should. And we did. And we will continue to do so. Patsocism isn’t a dying trend, but it isn’t necessarily one that gains traction with conservatives. You can literally think the same way. Conservatives don’t like Communism. Therefore Conservatives won’t support MAGA Communism. Therefore this movement, as big as it sounds, it’s a fringe and extremist group, one which requires further analysis than looking at the surface.