:AyyyyyOC-big:

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she’s a serving her second two year term in the lower house of a political system literally designed to make populist reforms as difficult as possible to pass.

…and she’s the best “we’ve” got.

I’m gonna quote Matt Karp’s article in the jacobin after Bernie’s concession; “The Left, after Bernie, has finally grown just strong enough to know how weak it really is.”

I’m sick of political theater(an m4a vote would be just that) and I’m sick of liberal shit like “their your representatives”. the only way change can be achieved is through real life organizing of the masses.

I’ll pass on using one of the 4 non-ghouls in congress as my outlet for anger/punching bag.

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no, holding people accountable isn’t liberalism.

expecting one lowly elected official to make a difference is.

I’m just jaded. I’m tired and political theater is a waste of time to me.

look at where america is now and compare it to the ideals of this forum. Is AOC going to achieve those ideals? no, she most definently is a lib and has no desire to. but imagine for a second that she wants to…could she? NO. we have to organize IRL to achieve those ideals. are we on the same page on this?

even when it comes to m4a, it’ll take a coalition and class based organization.

the left hardly exists in real life. if it did, would folks like McConnell get elected to represent one of the most impoverished states in the country? his democratic challenger was just another capitalist goon!

I’m not gonna use her as a punching bag for our lack of power is what I’m saying.

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This is well said, and you could say the same things about Bernie, ESPECIALLY if he somehow had become president. I’m honestly not even picking sides on “#forceTheVote”, I’d obviously love for Pelosi to go either way, concessions or not. I’ve discussed the issue on here because I am curious about the strategic value of it and I don’t have a firm answer.

The one thing I AM actually certain of is that it’s illogical to think we can elect a social democrat and bully them on Twitter into being more aggressive. It’s a complete disregard for the necessity of needing to build a politically organized working class. It’s the ONLY thing that has historically achieved good things like M4A. Jimmy Dore’s argument that “I bet they would vote for it actually” is a fucking braindead take, we can all throw it out. Brianha Joy’s take is more interesting, that it’s worth it to force the vote regardless because even though we can’t win, there’s a chance that it’ll set a stage for public agitation. I somewhat lean toward this take because yeah, let’s hold Pelosi hostage, even if the eventual win is purely symbolic. But I think what’s insanely overstated is the effect that this would have in “creating a moment” for a “general strike” or “protests in the street”. Idk, as you can tell I’m a bit torn on the subject, but I think it’s important to note that this moment is just not all that consequential considering the disjointed power we have on the left.

I think Ben Burgis put it well in calling it “voluntarism” - the idea that a small portion of upper class hyper online people led by podcasts hosts can do it. That the reason we don’t have M4A is because the 4 people we critically support in congress just don’t WANT it badly enough.

At least it’s a very log-offy moment for me lol

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Ugh, thank you. Either electoralism matters, in which case maybe write her a letter or primary her if she’s upsetting you so much, or it doesn’t, in which case none of these issues, especially not how she uses the word “violence”, are relevant or worth the stress. We have a lot of other shit to focus on.

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