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Imagine how many Ukrainian lives would have been spared if they had kept their word with the Minsk agreements and didn’t shell civilians in Donbass. Ignoring that, imagine how many Ukrainian lives would have been spared if they (or lets be real, their Nato handlers) actually sat down and tried to hammer out a peace instead of prolong a lost war at the expense of every last ukrainian life. Of course if you have the russia is ebil psycho genocidal pootin state brainworms then the geopolitics and all material conditions can be ignored and you can keep living in your hyper-propagandized liberal fantasy world.
You can live in your little fantasy with that cute little excuse for a full scale invasion, hundreds of war crimes, thousands dead and millions of people displaced, but we all know that’s a load of bs.
We all know who was in dombas and how many people were shelled.
Hammer out a deal with Putin hahaha ha. You got to be joking. You mean a new one, not like any of the previous ones he doesn’t care about?
You have 0 arguments. You are a pathetic, war crime apologist. Disgusting.
You have fully retreated into your liberal subject mind palace and there is absolutely zero point in interacting with you, nor was there ever to be frank
You can live in your little fantasy with that cute little excuse for a full scale invasion, hundreds of war crimes, thousands dead and millions of people displaced, but we all know that’s a load of bs.
It’s like we’re saying the same thing, only you’re on the wrong side of history
You can live in your little fantasy with that cute little excuse
We have reached the shallow “I’m rubber you’re glue” portion of debating with a liberal. Having no concrete grounding in knowledge of on-the-ground conditions or a political framework by which to understand the forces at hand, the “debater” actually escalates when challenged. Rather than becoming informed or reading a book or dealing with the points made directly, they engage in a thin pantomime of the rhetoric flung their way.
This is defensive behavior and what a poor handling of cognitive dissonance looks like. We’ve all been there, but you can choose to move on from this period in your life by just being honest with yourself. A good first step is to disengage when you don’t know something - at least until you gain the knowledge or the alibility to gauge and admit when you don’t know something.
There are many things I don’t know, but I have a much nicer time in political discussions because I don’t dig a hole for myself by blathering on about it and escalating when cornered.
No, supporting the attacked people in their defence until they decide otherways.
Also: stop dumbasses who think not giving weapons to attacked people that fight for their own freedom is a way to peace. The whole notion is absurd.
No, supporting the attacked people in their defence until they decide otherways.
Then you should support the people of the Donbas who have been fighting for their lives since Ukraine started trying to ethnically cleanse them back in 2014.
No, supporting the attacked people in their defence until they decide otherways.
You just admitted that ukraine can decide to surrender meaning this isn’t a genocidal war so every supply of weapons keeping the Ukrainian government from doing so is another thousands of lives wasted pointlessly.
No, supporting the attacked people in their defence until they decide otherways.
So you’d have been fine with arming the Iraqi people with modern western arms in their struggle against American invaders, neat!
I not a deranged putinist jerking off on his picture like some people here
Yeah we’re not “Putinists” whatever that means lmfao
Russia wants nothing of the sort. If you’re not some sad troll but actually believe Russia has “fantasies of removing Ukrainian culture” etc, you are so deluded it’s disgusting. It was Ukraine that has been attempting to ethnically cleanse people of Russian heritage that is mostly what kicked this whole conflict off. Russia has been making sure civilians have a corridor to safety while the Ukrainians have been openly talking about purging the population of Crimea if it were able to take it from Russia (which they can’t, not even in their wildest “fantasies.”)
Russia has wanted to negotiate reasonable peace terms since the beginning of the war, but it has been repeatedly scuttled by NATO/Ukraine, most famously when Boris Johnson intervened to make sure peace did not happen.
All of that is the reality of the situation, but the propagandists and those who ate up all their lies like to project the crimes and failures of their own masters onto their enemy, and we end up with the mirror world that this sorry know-nothing fool believes in.
That is the official Russian narrative. Do you have anything more than that?
What should Ukraine negotiate for? What does Ukraine get in exchange for territorial surrender?
So far, Putin has broken and ignored:
- Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation
- The Budapest Memorandum
- The Sochi Accords
- Treaty on the Russia-Ukraine State Border
- The Minsk Agreement
- The Second Minsk Agreement
If a new treaty were to be negotiated, why would Ukraine expect Putin to follow it? What would be the consequences if he did not?
Putin broke the Minsk Agreements, huh?
Anyone who wants to can go find out the truth of that claim and they will find that it was Ukraine/NATO that broke the agreements which is literally the reason it came to war. This was admitted to openly even by Angela fucking Merkel, who said they only drafted the agreements to buy time for Ukraine to build up more arms and continue antagonizing the Donbas.
Putting aside the factual errors, let’s just think about the thrust of your argument for a minute. Wars are ended by diplomacy. You’re saying Russia can’t honor agreements (nonfactually, but hey). Therefore, this war can never end. Is that really your conclusion? What’s your expected endgame?
https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1695548095877017857 ukrainian culture be like:
"A crowd of Ukrainians sings the anthem of the OUN, a BRUTAL Ukrainian WW2 organisation that massacred more than 100 thousand people while fighting alongside German N@zis.
Led by Stepan Bandera, it is considered a role model by Western Ukrainians to this day."
My favorite bit of Bandera trivia, is when people say he eventually turned on Hitler and was imprisoned, they don’t say why.
Bandera simply wanted his own Fascist republic and to do away with the undesirables in a Ukrainian way. Hitler basically told him to fuck off and kept his troops in Ukraine, and Bandera was like as he was put in a camp. After that, the group he had previously led continued to massacre 35k-80k Poles.
Literally the two worst people you know poking eachother in the eye and trying to garner sympathy.
You really want to go there lol? You understand the comparison is Russia? Russia. It’s like nazi central there. They killed tens of millions of their “own”. That is one of the most horrible countries in the world that have brought only suffering to their own citizens and all it’s neighbours through all their history. Even their artists are only about how their life is horrible. Nobody wants to be in Russia. Thats Russia. Whatever Ukraine is, at least they are trying to have it better.
No you don’t. The only way you could possibly need sources for that is if you have just found out about the war and have no prior historical knowledge. Or if you want to troll. Either way, i got no time for that.
Bye.
NoiseColor@startrek.website kicks puppies for fun. I don’t need to provide sources.
I wonder how all of you imagine Ukraine fighting back without even this limited western help. How would this look like and what kind of casualty rate would you expect as Russia would profil their fantasies of removing Ukrainian culture and erasing their nation from history?
What casualty rate are you expecting if there is no fighting? This is a nonsense assessment, you are making the absurd argument that Russia are running some sort of mass murder machine to delete the people from existence and this is just evidently not true as we see in every town, city and village that they’ve taken.
If you drop this absurdist fantasy you have about some sort of existential battle for survival the entire idea that you are “saving lives” by perpetuating an endless unwinnable war completely falls apart. You’re not saving lives, you’re creating a meat grinder using those lives for the sake of harming Russia. You don’t give a fuck about Ukrainian lives, Russian lives, or any lives. You are a nationalist who wants to save the Ukrainian STATE. The state is what you care about, along with its allegiance to the western empire. And you are willing to expend as many lives as is necessary in order to maintain it.
You deliberately conflate people with the state. When they are not the same thing. If the state ends the people don’t magically end, they still exist and just live under a different state. I am not a nationalist. I do not give a fuck what group of bourgeoisie exploit the people. Picking between one group of billionaire exploiters over another group of billionaire exploiters is absurd.
Nationalism is a disease and you need to rid yourself of it. You are advocating for the deaths of hundreds of thousands for the sake of it. Instead you should join in with wanting to save the lives of PEOPLE, not states.
I don’t expect you to do that of course, because you’re ideologically committed to cheerleading for the western billionaires in their competition with these eastern billionaires. You see them as your team against their team. And as long as you see everything in that way you’ll always be like this. Meanwhile those of us that aren’t on either team just want people to survive and recognise that cheerleading for either side only causes more death. The fastest end to the war is the best one for the families that would be destroyed by its continuation.
Ukraine is a country and has no thoughts about anything. It’s not real.
The people dying on the frontlines are real. They are the cost, here.
You think they are glad to die like this for national borders? Dying in the mud, choking on their own blood?
Square your concept of this war with the necessity of conscription. Really let that sink in what that means. Those human beings are not there dying willingly.
Clearly the best solution is to fight until the last Ukrainian. You’re saying that arming and propping up an unsustainable government is peaceful, which is objectively insane. Let’s say that NATO didn’t arm Ukraine, Russia surrounds the capitol back in February, decapitates the government, and they surrender ceding the Donetsk and Luhansk and signing a neutrality pact. How is that objectively not more peaceful than the current meat grinder?
How would this look like and what kind of casualty rate would you expect as Russia would profil their fantasies of removing Ukrainian culture and erasing their nation from history?
Which Russian leaders have said this? Cite sources or fuck off.
their fantasies of removing Ukrainian culture and erasing their nation from history?
Where in the Fuck have you picked this up. Just a general vibe that Russia is bad therefore anything evil you can dream up must be true? Get out of your double think bubble
Helping them with everything we can seem a way more peaceful plan
No, just no.
Please do your research
This is the latest lib tactic that’s driving me insane.
They just go for top shelf insults and accusations based on feels.
Look at any comments section about Cornel West. In two weeks he went from just being a “spoiler candidate” to a “MAGA double Hitler who wants Russia at glass Ukraine”.
They find one talking point and extrapolate on it until it’s at the craziest fever pitch it can reach.
Dr. west: “Maybe there’s historical precedent that might have provoked russia”
“that’s Russian talking points sweaty. Since I said that, now I get to assume you, and Dr. west are getting checks handwritten from Putler! Why do you want trump to win?!? Are you a fascist maga Russian troll? What time is it in Crystal Palace, Russia, vlad?”
