Previous Hexbear post on this issue by @ButtBidet@hexbear.net
I’m not sorry for causing this.
Also holy fuck if someone says “obligate carnivore” to me one more fucking time I am going to reach through the screen and suffocate them by stuffing a head of cauliflower down their throats.
Anyway, one reading of this TOS update bans discussions of meat eating as it advocates immanent harm and is an unhealthy diet.
I doubt any of the people yelling obligate carnivore like it’s an incantation to banish vegans actually know what it means.
yelling obligate carnivore at vegans
Seeing as vegans are definitional proof that humans are not obligate carnivores…
humans aren’t even carnivores, they’re omnivores. Our bodies literally cannot handle being meat only diets. ‘obligatory carnivore’ makes no sense.
If it isn’t a cat or a snake or a spider or some shit like that it isn’t an obligate carnivore. Just keep asking them if they are a cat snake or spider and if not to shut the fuck up.
FYI this conflict was precipitated by a discussion on the vegan comm about feeding cats a vegan diet
Obligate carnivore is an ecological descriptor. It doesn’t mean plants are poisonous, only that in the wild they seek their nutrients from meat and when not available they starve.
In the most extreme case you could startrek replicator some meat, and by logical extension there are steps before that are nutritionally complete and digestible while still being artificially constructed. E.g. by isolating or synthesising nutrients and pellitising it.
It is a fallacy to go from “snakes only eat mice in the wild” to “therefore humans must feed mice snakes” and anyone who doesn’t see the extremely obvious flaw in that reasoning is outing themselves as a complete buffoon. Whether it is practicable does not make waving “obligate carnivores” any more respectable.
The wrong person is apologising here. You did nothing wrong. (lol I misread what you wrote)
Also I have zero interest in non-vegan’s opinions on vegan matters. If someone knowingly and calmly get involved in the industrial murder and exploitation of animals, everything they say about the issue is just concern trolling. It’s like the millions of carnist Westerners who hold strong opinions on PETA.
I’m not going to weigh in on pets particularly because I don’t know enough, I’m also not vegan. I do however want to remark that you can sense the meat eating guilt and reactionary emotional defensiveness in a lot of this stuff. People feel very attacked and very defensive.
There is an underlying feeling deep down that it is wrong but because they personally enjoy it and get happy hormones when eating the topic triggers a massive emotional response.
Speculation: Eating food is probably one of the only times some people truly genuinely feel happy and is responsible for the massive defensive reaction when anyone suggests food habits should be changed. I suspect that the non-vegans that do not react poorly to the topic have much stronger sources of happiness that aren’t food.
I’m not going to weigh in on pets particularly because I don’t know enough, I’m also not vegan.
I wish more people did this about things
In hindsight it sort of sounds like I think you need to be vegan to weigh in on that. Those should be two separate things. I just wanted to mention that I’m not for the sake of the post itself. The pet part is just genuinely because I’ve looked at literally no research. I avoid forming opinions on shit I know nothing about.
Ya I think it’s cool people can just go “ya I don’t have the knowledge to weigh in on this subject”. I unironically wish people did this more.
Eating food is probably one of the only times some people truly genuinely feel happy and is responsible for the massive defensive reaction when anyone suggests food habits should be changed
Yes, it’s like literally saying “i don’t want you to be happy”, i have that too, albeit only about bugs (but seriously i did almost ended a friendship over that, fortunately they weren’t serious about it and backed off when they realised i was).
No, we talk about eating bugs, i expressed my absolute deathly disgust and next few meetings they were teasing me for it and finally they brought package of crickets and eated it demonstratingly before me, seeing that i freaked out and told them to get the fuck out of my home before i puke on them, and looking at the mirror shortly later i was really green-red-yellow and felt also like this so it wasn’t a hyperbole. Fortunately after looking at my face they understood i’m serious so they packed it back and never brought it again, and even brought me some delicious mochi next time as apology, so it’s all good.
I have thoughts so strap in. This is a bit of a rant trigger for me.
Food is awesomely important to humans. Every culture I have looked at (layperson, not anthropologist so there’s that) has some sort of food-hospitality ritual. Festivities have particular foods associated with them, you eat and drink certain things at weddings, funerals, birthdays, season changes, whatever. In houses it is often the kitchen which becomes the center of activity and socialisation. Food is probably involved to some degree in the vast majority of good memories you have, from meals with family, self indulgence after a hard or stressful day, meetings with friends, celebrations of achievement etc.
This isn’t that surprising, we are meat and it needs sustaining. A huge amount of effort in any individual’s life goes into securing and eating food.
But if you’re the kind of person that doesn’t view the world through a systemic lens, that looks at structural issues and ideological hegemony as a series of individual moral failings. Well someone raising veganism is obviously doing so to say that you are a bad person and you should feel guilty about all of your good memories. You see this shit directly, people constantly accuse vegans of having moral superiority complexes and wanting to shame people. Research says people vastly overestimate how negatively vegans judge non vegans. Antivegans also conveniently forget that almost every single vegan was non-vegan and thus was complicit in carnism until they were given the chance to change by someone else’s advocacy and education.
Generally the data say that people who anticipate negative judgement less from vegans are more likely to rate vegans as more moral/more positively. Notably this is true even in the absence of any actual interactions. The lashing out is massively driven by a guilt complex caused by a garbage understanding of how human societies and systemic evil actually work.
This makes me wonder if there is an approach to selling veganism that offers the same approach marxism makes when it comes to socialism - not being a moralist about it. I suspect selling to those people would be more effective without the preconceived beliefs they have about vegans and moral judgement. Maybe a specific spinoff branch of veganism without the name vegan, named intentionally to get people to ask what it is. It would potentially enable a foot in the door because it wouldn’t trigger the reactions.
Idk, figure out how to make yourself vegan and get back to me with what opened your mind?
My experience was studying/working in ag and packing chickens I loved into crates to go be murdered triggering a lifetime of guilt and a slowly narrowing list of people it was acceptable to murder for pleasure based on the latest science. Before I realised my null hypothesis was entirely fucked up and kept leading me astray. I can’t really empathise with people who aren’t acutely aware of the guilt and shame in carnism as it happened to me around the time I feel I can start recalling consistent memories (14ish) so it’s hard for me to understand what would be individually effective.
The only times I’ve managed to actually change anyone’s mind in person it has been a process of relentless reminders that another way is possible which has preventing them from embracing the “normal, natural, necessary” required to justify stuff.
Lots of activists try different things, and many studies have been done. But it appears that mind-changing happens over a long time and we’re basically highly persistent to being persuaded of anything once we form our first opinion. The best studies basically say “after such and such an intervention people rated their likelihood of going vegan higher/lower on the exit survey”. Not useless, but it’s impossible to capture what actually converts people that way.
Personally I get the most “huh” faces when I wear my elwood’s dog meat Tshirt and cause random people to come up to me and make most of the case of veganism for me in the face of my apparent inhumanity.
Don’t fence sit! Go vegan, we get magic powers like firebreath (need a lighter) it comes out the wrong end though.
I wonder if this also applies to racism, sexism, etc.? Like if people who associate their positions on the hierarchy with happy memories (relationship swith their relatives, hanging out with a group of guys after school, etc.). So when you attack their position of power, they take it really personally. The “white guilt” stuff they spout is pure projection.
Now I’m wondering about how bullying the other manifests itself. It’s pretty common for white people to bond by using racism. Perhaps some chuds think fondly of the time they made fun of some gay person with their group of friends. When you tell them stuff like that is wrong, they flip the fuck out.
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We reserve the right to remove information that could cause imminent physical harm to any living being. This includes topics like conversion therapy, unhealthy diets, and dangerous medical procedures. Information that could result in imminent physical harm to property or other living beings may also be removed.
And people pointing out the Democrats are complicit in Genocide apparently.
From a mod:
Israel has been committing war crimes in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon and Syria for DECADES before Biden and Harris held political office. They are not to blame here, Israel is. Bibi is. Their crimes will continue regardless of support from the US or who is President.
Blame the actual perpetrators, not those you imagine are involved via six degrees of separation.
critical thinking is officially banned on .world
I saw an exchange yesterday where a lib was insisting the US is responsible for Israel’s genocide in the same way that Sweden is responsible for the Columbine shooting because the gun used was manufactured there.
That exchange actually broke me
As someone who has worked in science, this passes the sniff test.
As someone who also has “worked in science” I find it incredibly cringe to read something like this. It just makes me read it in the voices of all the dumbass scientist coworkers I’ve had over the years who think they’re uniquely qualified to solve X problem because they have a bachelors and a few years on the job.
Basically a long-winded way of invoking Dunning-Kruger
imagine wasting your time and fragile ego on this fucking nonsense lmao
world.mins writing a 20 paragraph legaleese document ensuring no vegan will ever touch them in there safe space ever again.
