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132 points

Curious. They claim NATO exists as self defense against a peer enemy, yet their strategies only work against small, relatively defenseless countries!

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58 points
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51 points
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I mean, has NATO ever tried any of it’s strategies on it’s peers? Can we say they don’t work if they haven’t?

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41 points
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The most they’ve done is wargames and after the Millenium Challenge 2002 shit I don’t know if their wargames could even begin to count as an attempt to even model conflict with a near-peer

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Should be noted that even then the US lost so comprehensively in the first day of combat that the generals restarted the entire thing and forced the side playing Iran to essentially sit on their hands

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NATO is forcing completely absurd tactics and strategies on the Ukrainians that has cost tens of thousands of lives, and this is why we need to support Ukraine even more with more NATO training and wonderweapons!

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66 points
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46 points

no more half measures walter

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43 points

Don’t forget, they’re also saying that Russia is using human wave attacks which also isn’t fair.

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51 points
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21 points

“When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who follows picks up the rifle and sells it to an Italian fascist”

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NATO tactics assume air superiority.

I keep harping on this point again and again because I really cannot get across how fucking stupid it is: YOU DO NOT ASSUME AIR SUPREMACY OVER ANOTHER NATION’S AIRSPACE, YOU FUCKING INCOMPETENT IDIOTS. YOU CANNOT PROJECT AIR POWER 500 MILES DEEP INTO A NATION WITH A COMPREHENSIVE AIR DEFENSE NETWORK, RADARS, AND SAM SITES. YOUR STEALTH TECHNOLOGY IS NOT INVINCIBLE, AND YOUR SHITTY OVERPRICED BULLSHIT F-35 WILL GET SHOT DOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THIS IS WHY YOU REFUSE TO DEPLOY THEM ON ACTUAL FRONTLINES.

Then again, since NATO keeps doubling-down on this idea it just means they’re more likely to get fucking annihilated anytime they fight a near-peer in conventional warfare, so critical support to the failson Wunderwaffen generals I guess?

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68 points

I think it says a lot about the countries NATO has been fighting that something like “assume air superiority” isn’t laughed out of the room. It’s because they are mostly in the business of destroying third world nations and haven’t fought wars nearly so much as campaigns to exterminate resistance.

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It’s a fundamental flaw in the fascistic thinking of the West. Assuming superiority. “We are the civilized, evolved supreme people, and they are primitive subhumans.”

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55 points
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35 points

One of my favorite Stalin trivia bits is that he wrote a personal note to a factory berating them for not making enough Ilyushin fighters.

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You have let down our country and our Red Army. You have the nerve not to manufacture IL-2s until now. Our Red Army now needs IL-2 aircraft like the air it breathes, like the bread it eats. Shenkman produces one IL-2 a day and Tretyakov builds one or two MiG-3s daily. It is a mockery of our country and the Red Army. I ask you not to try the government’s patience, and demand that you manufacture more ILs. This is my final warning.

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31 points

The assumption is nonsense but completely consistent with NATO transforming itself from a force designed to fight a peer military to a glorified colonial gendarmarie following the collapse of the USSR. They drank their own Kool Aid about the end of history and are paying for it now.

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YOUR STEALTH TECHNOLOGY IS NOT INVINCIBLE, AND YOUR SHITTY OVERPRICED BULLSHIT F-35 WILL GET SHOT DOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

I absolutely need a variant of the “Sorry, We Didn’t Know It Was Invisible” poster but for an F-35.

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17 points

Go look on Reddit, you’ll see the same people who hem and haw that NATO is purely defensive gloating about bombing runs

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5 points
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During NATO’s “intervention” in the Balkans, they sent what was at the time the world’s most advanced and only existing model of stealth fighter, the F-117, to bomb some shit.

Serbian air defence shot one of them down, and not even by accident, they just straight up saw the “stealth fighter” on radar and smacked it with a missile. Later they put out this balling propaganda poster dunking on the Americans.

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You see, we are experts at a tactical doctrine that has been optimized to brutally crush the forces of third world nations after a decade of sanctions. I think it’s silly to expect us to be ready to face a foe with as many or more bombs than us, but this doctrine has led us to victory for decades.

I am now hearing that our strategy didn’t even exactly work when recently applied in Afghanistan, or back in Vietnam, and Iraq is a coin toss as well, but what’s important is that we’re experts in it. For example, we successfully reduced Libya to a Mad Max style country in record time, and we’re working on repeating that success in Ukraine.

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And in the end, what really matters is we made a lot of value for the shareholders in the military industrial complex.

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70 points

Where’s the evidence that the Ukrainian soldiers have better training? Blind assumption that Western training is inherently superior?

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63 points
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45 points
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They say Russian POWs are complaining about lack of training, though they of course provide no source for this except for a general handwave of “plenty of interviewed.” Others have posted a lot of different sources (with references!) which claim the Ukrainians are generally ill-equipped and barely-trained.

this is why you should never take much stock from what POWs say while in their enemy’s custody. from neither Ukrainian nor Russian POWs. It’s easy to be like “oh, but they should know! they’re first-hand witnesses of what they’re talking about!” and that can be true but there’s no way of knowing if they’ve been threatened to say what they said, or if their words have been taken out of context, etc.

If a thousand POWs say nothing, but a single one says “Oh yeah, the Russian/Ukrainian Army actually is doing these horrific acts, I totes saw them doing it, they ordered me to do it, and uhh they’re about to collapse!” then that singular opinion will be shouted from the rooftops and it will be generalized and taken as gospel by the opposing side. Propaganda is about emphasising certain facts or opinions over others, even if those certain facts or opinions are held by a tiny minority and are patently false.

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31 points
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Also there’s an inverse survivorship bias going on here.

The least trained troops are going to be the most likely to be captured so what statements they make is going to be reflected by whatever the weaknesses happen to be that were contributing factors to them being captured.

They got overrun? Those who are captured are very likely to complain about lack of numbers and lack of support.

They were completely outmatched by better trained forces who used better tactics? Those who are captured are very likely going to complain about lack of training.

Their supply lines were interrupted? They’re almost certainly going to complain about a lack of supply.

Never underestimate that those who are captured are probably going to be engaging in some degree of cope.

What you hear in the western narrative is largely shaped by all the strengths of the Ukrainian side and all the deficits of the Russian side (and these often get exaggerated and even universalised). But it’s unusual to have much focus on the Ukrainian deficits and the Russian strengths.

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46 points

Their reserve conscripts are no match for our army of forced volunteers!

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32 points

That’d be my guess

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